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Well, I've been looking at Chinese EV's and basically drooling at what they're doing. In this country (USA), an EV is a ball-and-chain over how many miles unti

by pierat 3y ago

Well, I've been looking at Chinese EV's and basically drooling at what they're doing. In this country (USA), an EV is a ball-and-chain over how many miles until you go before a recharge for hours. In China, its 3 minutes to SWAP a battery. You know, the solution the manchild in charge of Tesla said wouldn't work. And here it is, working in USD 12k ev's. https://www.scmp.com/video/scmp-originals/3168635/chinese-smart-battery-swap-stations-can-change-ev-batteries https://www.scmp.com/video/scmp-originals/3168635/chinese-sm... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anXQfRuAkZw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anXQfRuAkZw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoBeXHYdO0Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoBeXHYdO0Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTsrDpsYHrw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTsrDpsYHrw But hey, look at the "bright side" - we now get $7500 off cars that start at USD 70k for EVs. Real 'deal'.

kcb 3y ago
Eh. Recharge for hours is just incorrect. And BYD doesn't seem to be going the battery swap route either. So there's more to it than just Elon Musk doesn't like it.
- foobarian 3y ago
  Tesla demoed a battery swap in one of the early keynotes. But I can see the infra being much harder than just charging, as well as restricting the subsequent car design. Maybe the timing is much better now that the EV design has settled a bit. Looks like Nio got to a good number of stations so far [1] [1] https://carnewschina.com/2023/10/20/nio-built-2000-battery-swap-stations-globally-leaving-geely-catl-and-gac-far-behind/ https://carnewschina.com/2023/10/20/nio-built-2000-battery-s...
engineer_22 3y ago
Just to play devil's advocate. For a majority of people, I think most trips aren't long enough to require battery charging/swapping. Charging happens in between your trips when you don't need the car anyway. I travel regionally for work, but even on days that I spend a lot of time in the car my journey may only be 200-300 miles, punctuated by meetings and project work. This system does appear to have advantages for vehicles that are being driven continuously, like taxis, delivery vehicles, or long haul. I think the capital expense for a complicated apparatus like this might be justifiable if you can amortize it across a fleet of vehicles. One drawback may be that if this complicated equipment breaks, you are in a pickle unless you have access to another battery machine. ------ -> You know, the solution the manchild in charge of Tesla said wouldn't work. Disappointing personal opinion unnecessary to your point. ------ Edit: Another drawback may be technology lock in. If battery swap stations only service one brand of car you could look at them as having a reduced utility compared to an industry standard battery pack design. This is not an insurmountable problem, but worth consideration from an economic efficiency perspective.
zdragnar 3y ago
Swapping had been tried elsewhere, and the economics never worked out. It's a massive capital investment in batteries, for one, plus the retail land cost. Not to mention that EV brands haven't standardized swappable batteries. The competition operates on the thinnest of margins: utility electricity prices and gas stations. Swapping is just a crap market to get into.
thebruce87m 3y ago
Hours? You might wait 20-30 minutes every 2-3 hours of driving. Well I say wait, you’ll probably be doing something else for most/all of it since that is a natural stopping point for most. Note: please people don’t shares stories of how you drive for 20 hours without stopping, I hate being reminded about the habits of some of the people I share the road with.
The_Colonel 3y ago
This must work on some subscription system. Otherwise how can you be sure you're not getting a bad nattery replacement. How can the business make sure you're not giving them a degraded battery for their new one?

by pierat 3y ago

kcb 3y ago

Eh. Recharge for hours is just incorrect. And BYD doesn't seem to be going the battery swap route either. So there's more to it than just Elon Musk doesn't like it.

foobarian 3y ago
Tesla demoed a battery swap in one of the early keynotes. But I can see the infra being much harder than just charging, as well as restricting the subsequent car design. Maybe the timing is much better now that the EV design has settled a bit. Looks like Nio got to a good number of stations so far [1] [1] https://carnewschina.com/2023/10/20/nio-built-2000-battery-swap-stations-globally-leaving-geely-catl-and-gac-far-behind/ https://carnewschina.com/2023/10/20/nio-built-2000-battery-s...

engineer_22 3y ago

Just to play devil's advocate. For a majority of people, I think most trips aren't long enough to require battery charging/swapping. Charging happens in between your trips when you don't need the car anyway. I travel regionally for work, but even on days that I spend a lot of time in the car my journey may only be 200-300 miles, punctuated by meetings and project work. This system does appear to have advantages for vehicles that are being driven continuously, like taxis, delivery vehicles, or long haul. I think the capital expense for a complicated apparatus like this might be justifiable if you can amortize it across a fleet of vehicles. One drawback may be that if this complicated equipment breaks, you are in a pickle unless you have access to another battery machine. ------ -> You know, the solution the manchild in charge of Tesla said wouldn't work. Disappointing personal opinion unnecessary to your point. ------ Edit: Another drawback may be technology lock in. If battery swap stations only service one brand of car you could look at them as having a reduced utility compared to an industry standard battery pack design. This is not an insurmountable problem, but worth consideration from an economic efficiency perspective.

zdragnar 3y ago

Swapping had been tried elsewhere, and the economics never worked out. It's a massive capital investment in batteries, for one, plus the retail land cost. Not to mention that EV brands haven't standardized swappable batteries. The competition operates on the thinnest of margins: utility electricity prices and gas stations. Swapping is just a crap market to get into.

thebruce87m 3y ago

Hours? You might wait 20-30 minutes every 2-3 hours of driving. Well I say wait, you’ll probably be doing something else for most/all of it since that is a natural stopping point for most. Note: please people don’t shares stories of how you drive for 20 hours without stopping, I hate being reminded about the habits of some of the people I share the road with.

The_Colonel 3y ago

This must work on some subscription system. Otherwise how can you be sure you're not getting a bad nattery replacement. How can the business make sure you're not giving them a degraded battery for their new one?