4 ms·

This only applies to free accounts, i.e., accounts that have M365 Personal or Family don't have the Advertising section

surge 3y ago
Yeah, this just follows the rule of if its free, you are the product, not the customer. You're going to get ads and relinquish your data in exchange for the service. For proton, I assume they have a free tier (I don't know I pay for it). So I guess they let people know to push adoption or get people to make the jump, but the assumption is they have some conversion rate to paying customers. For those that never want to pay for email as their usage scales, they're better off staying.
- Tijdreiziger 3y ago
  But you paid for the OS (or the computer it came on), so it wasn’t free.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - surge 3y ago
    The service itself is cloud based and no cost.
- n3150n 3y ago
  Although I understand your point, Shoshanna Zuboff would say otherwise. We are the resource; not the product, neither the consumer. According to her, "their" product used to be information. Then it became prediction. And now it's behavior modification, which they achieve by constantly mining us (the data we provide them). At least IMHO, this is a more accurate depiction of the current state of affairs. Although in the end, it may be quite a similar metaphor, either way.
  - surge 3y ago
    This is a good addendum to my post, it expands upon it. I don't even take it as a correction, and I learned a bit. Thanks for this. I don't know who Shoshanna Zuboff is (I'll 'kagi' them), but I agree with the points made. It's been an evolving strategy of how to exploit users as a resource for financial gain or at least cover the costs of the free tier service.
akaike 3y ago
But even then, they still collect data or am I wrong? You won’t have ads but they still have access to your data etc.
- TheCleric 3y ago
  I’m doing a heavy amount of assumption, but I’d be surprised if MS would so thoroughly piss off their enterprise users.
  - Tijdreiziger 3y ago
    “accounts that have M365 Personal or Family” (per GGP) clearly aren’t enterprise users.
  - WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
    Microsoft is absolutely doing this to business customers. One of my corp clients who uses O365 Business + Enterprise Exchange got hijacked by the method in the below article. https://www.heise.de/news/Microsoft-lays-hands-on-login-data-Beware-of-the-new-Outlook-9358925.html https://www.heise.de/news/Microsoft-lays-hands-on-login-data...
WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
> This only applies to free accounts, This is not true. My business clients on hosted Exchange are paying for O365 Biz. Their local Outlook app has a Try The New Outlook switch in the upper right corner. That's all it says. The one employee who clicked it (before I could warn them) found the local paid-for, Outlook app transformed into web-based Outlook running in Edge. All of the same issues mentioned in the article were first discovered in this New Outlook by German researchers. This client made a point of purchasing local-run Office apps. Web based Office is a non-starter. In this case, MS is using a deceptive method to hijack my client into running software - they they explicitly paid to not have to use. Microsoft's behavior in this is clearly unethical.
- stackskipton 3y ago
  New Outlook described in article is not PWA Outlook you have with "New Outlook for O365". PWA Outlook for 365 is different from this. Part of Microsoft Problem here is they have 4 things they call "Outlook". Outlook the Consumer Desktop Application which is privacy nightmare referenced in this article. Outlook the personal free email hosting service (old Hotmail), Outlook the Business Desktop Application most people know. New New 365 Outlook which is just WebView2 Outlook.
  - WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
    > New Outlook described in article is not PWA Outlook you have with "New Outlook for O365". PWA Outlook for 365 is different from this. Okay. And? As I mentioned in my post, the same behaviors discussed by the Proton researchers were also discovered by German researchers in the "New Outlook". Does the purchase channel matter here?
    - stackskipton 3y ago
      Yes. This is consumer grade Outlook hooked up to Consumer free mail hosting. Outlook (Desktop/Web App) in 365 is COMPLETELY outside of proton article.
      - 3y ago
Zuiii 3y ago
Until it doesn't. On-demand streaming services anyone?

Yeah, this just follows the rule of if its free, you are the product, not the customer. You're going to get ads and relinquish your data in exchange for the service. For proton, I assume they have a free tier (I don't know I pay for it). So I guess they let people know to push adoption or get people to make the jump, but the assumption is they have some conversion rate to paying customers. For those that never want to pay for email as their usage scales, they're better off staying.

Tijdreiziger 3y ago
But you paid for the OS (or the computer it came on), so it wasn’t free.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- surge 3y ago
  The service itself is cloud based and no cost.
n3150n 3y ago
Although I understand your point, Shoshanna Zuboff would say otherwise. We are the resource; not the product, neither the consumer. According to her, "their" product used to be information. Then it became prediction. And now it's behavior modification, which they achieve by constantly mining us (the data we provide them). At least IMHO, this is a more accurate depiction of the current state of affairs. Although in the end, it may be quite a similar metaphor, either way.
- surge 3y ago
  This is a good addendum to my post, it expands upon it. I don't even take it as a correction, and I learned a bit. Thanks for this. I don't know who Shoshanna Zuboff is (I'll 'kagi' them), but I agree with the points made. It's been an evolving strategy of how to exploit users as a resource for financial gain or at least cover the costs of the free tier service.

akaike 3y ago

But even then, they still collect data or am I wrong? You won’t have ads but they still have access to your data etc.

TheCleric 3y ago
I’m doing a heavy amount of assumption, but I’d be surprised if MS would so thoroughly piss off their enterprise users.
- Tijdreiziger 3y ago
  “accounts that have M365 Personal or Family” (per GGP) clearly aren’t enterprise users.
- WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
  Microsoft is absolutely doing this to business customers. One of my corp clients who uses O365 Business + Enterprise Exchange got hijacked by the method in the below article. https://www.heise.de/news/Microsoft-lays-hands-on-login-data-Beware-of-the-new-Outlook-9358925.html https://www.heise.de/news/Microsoft-lays-hands-on-login-data...

WarOnPrivacy 3y ago

> This only applies to free accounts, This is not true. My business clients on hosted Exchange are paying for O365 Biz. Their local Outlook app has a Try The New Outlook switch in the upper right corner. That's all it says. The one employee who clicked it (before I could warn them) found the local paid-for, Outlook app transformed into web-based Outlook running in Edge. All of the same issues mentioned in the article were first discovered in this New Outlook by German researchers. This client made a point of purchasing local-run Office apps. Web based Office is a non-starter. In this case, MS is using a deceptive method to hijack my client into running software - they they explicitly paid to not have to use. Microsoft's behavior in this is clearly unethical.

stackskipton 3y ago
New Outlook described in article is not PWA Outlook you have with "New Outlook for O365". PWA Outlook for 365 is different from this. Part of Microsoft Problem here is they have 4 things they call "Outlook". Outlook the Consumer Desktop Application which is privacy nightmare referenced in this article. Outlook the personal free email hosting service (old Hotmail), Outlook the Business Desktop Application most people know. New New 365 Outlook which is just WebView2 Outlook.
- WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
  > New Outlook described in article is not PWA Outlook you have with "New Outlook for O365". PWA Outlook for 365 is different from this. Okay. And? As I mentioned in my post, the same behaviors discussed by the Proton researchers were also discovered by German researchers in the "New Outlook". Does the purchase channel matter here?
  - stackskipton 3y ago
    Yes. This is consumer grade Outlook hooked up to Consumer free mail hosting. Outlook (Desktop/Web App) in 365 is COMPLETELY outside of proton article.
    - 3y ago

Zuiii 3y ago

Until it doesn't. On-demand streaming services anyone?