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> Or more accurately if it won't be clear when you get there? I love how all the replies to your comment completely ignore this point. If implemented as the o

> Or more accurately if it won't be clear when you get there? I love how all the replies to your comment completely ignore this point. If implemented as the other commenters naively suggest, it would cut the runway acceptance rate by probably 90%. Planes are normally sequenced so that each one touches down just seconds after the previous one turns off the runway. Otherwise, the horn would be constantly blaring for the entire approach, which would do exactly one thing: train pilots how to ignore the horn. Exactly like gear warning horns in planes without a radar/lidar altimeter (based on airspeed and manifold pressure). So many gear-up accidents happened with the pilot reporting that he was distracted by the warning horn on final. Why? Because there were so many false positives that the horn became nothing more than a nuisance device. And now you’re in exactly the same situation as before the incursion warning system, but the pilots on approach have to communicate over the incursion horn all the time. Great idea, guys! Why didn’t anyone think of this before? Those aviation folks sure are stupid, aren’t they? Even more problematic, the coast guard plane entered the runway just seconds before the JAL flight touched down. Even with a warning system for a plane on approach, there probably wasn’t enough time to execute a go-around.

CPLX 3y ago
Indeed. I am definitely not an aviation expert or professional but I do have a pilot's license and some hands on familiarity with how this all works. It's not easily automated. That's just factual. It's not impossible but it's way trickier than people who have never thought about this much are letting on. The accuracy of GPS is absolutely irrelevant for example.
johnwalkr 3y ago
On topics like this there are always "why don't they just do this" comments as if nobody in one of the most safety-minded has thought of it yet. I collect them in my HN favorites. Also there is a lot of safety that comes from not being too reactionary and adding complexity anytime someone has an idea. I think it's better to ask something like "does the industry use or plan to use any automation for this?"
konschubert 3y ago
You are right, designing a perfect system is complicated. Of course, you have account for planes that are expected to leave the runway before the next touchdown. The train equivalent for this is called CBTC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications-based_train_control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications-based_train_con... My bigger point here is that there are a bunch of low-hanging fruit that could have prevented this. A system doesn't have to be perfect to be useful. The tower could have known, that a plane was expected to land in the next 30 seconds. They could have automatically transmitted that to the cost guard plane and this could have sounded an alarm in the cockpit of the taxiing plane.

CPLX 3y ago

Indeed. I am definitely not an aviation expert or professional but I do have a pilot's license and some hands on familiarity with how this all works. It's not easily automated. That's just factual. It's not impossible but it's way trickier than people who have never thought about this much are letting on. The accuracy of GPS is absolutely irrelevant for example.

johnwalkr 3y ago

On topics like this there are always "why don't they just do this" comments as if nobody in one of the most safety-minded has thought of it yet. I collect them in my HN favorites. Also there is a lot of safety that comes from not being too reactionary and adding complexity anytime someone has an idea. I think it's better to ask something like "does the industry use or plan to use any automation for this?"

konschubert 3y ago

You are right, designing a perfect system is complicated. Of course, you have account for planes that are expected to leave the runway before the next touchdown. The train equivalent for this is called CBTC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications-based_train_control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications-based_train_con... My bigger point here is that there are a bunch of low-hanging fruit that could have prevented this. A system doesn't have to be perfect to be useful. The tower could have known, that a plane was expected to land in the next 30 seconds. They could have automatically transmitted that to the cost guard plane and this could have sounded an alarm in the cockpit of the taxiing plane.