4 ms·

What is interesting is that now with all the layoffs we also have more CS graduates than ever [0] who were told that tech companies are struggling to find candi

by 10xDev 3y ago

What is interesting is that now with all the layoffs we also have more CS graduates than ever [0] who were told that tech companies are struggling to find candidates to fill their vacancies. We are reaching a point, if not already at the point where we will have bunch of unemployed CS grads who will have to make a pivot into something entirely different. [0] https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d22/tables/dt22_322.10.asp https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d22/tables/dt22_322.10.a...

clusterhacks 3y ago
You may be interested in looking at the current Taulbee survey[1] - it surveys PhD granting CS and CE programs and collects MS and BS degree numbers as well. I also found [2] that shows "computer and information science" graduates having a higher-than-average unemployment rate than other degrees. In 2018. My anecdotal experience over the last 15 years as a person on the hiring side of the table is that my organization has received multiple qualified applicants for our open positions, several of who are almost always new CS grads looking for their first job. And my organization is in an area with multiple companies that hire software engineers and we typically pay somewhat below market. That experience makes me question if there is now (or even has been in that 15 years) an actual shortage of candidates for these types of jobs. [1-pdf] https://cra.org/crn/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2023/05/2022-Taulbee-Survey-Final.pdf [2-pdf] https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/pdf/coe_sbc.pdf
gopher2000 3y ago
Are you sure we're reaching that point? The market has certainly cooled but tech jobs are still available. I do think that many new grads will have to adjust their expectations from high 6 figure jobs in FAANGs to normal-but-still-fine compensation in tier 3-4 companies. I would also argue that it's hard to predict what the market looks like 4 years into the future. That's a reality people should acknowledge when they start a CS degree, etc.
- JAlexoid 3y ago
  Long story short - I would advise to not go into debt for a top tier CS degree, unless truly passionate. I am fortunate enough to have been educated in Europe and without any student debt. I can switch careers, without needing to keep income at a level to pay living expenses and loans.
  - rsanek 3y ago
    most student loans in the US have very low required minimum payments. that's part of why these loans can stick around for decades.
    - fomine3 3y ago
      APR is another important factor
  - gopher2000 3y ago
    So what would you advise?
- hn_go_brrrrr 3y ago
  No new grad making even mid six figures. High six figures is only reached at pretty senior levels most FAANG employees won't reach.
dijit 3y ago
I had a theory that FAANG (et al.) are implicitly trying to solve the problem of developer salaries. If we take things back to basics: supply and demand. If your biggest cost is developer salaries, then making a huge supply of developers is the best way to suppress those wages. I have long felt that the push to get women and minorities into coding was driven by this: to get as many people coding as possible so that supply was not constrained and developers could no longer name their price. I do not believe that Sundar carries Sergei's principles of making people want to work at google for a long time; I think of him more like a businessman (same as Tim Cook, actually). No strong principles, just pushing the company forward. For them the "company" is the C-Level and the branding and the partners. Not the employed.
- JAlexoid 3y ago
  It's their own fault for driving CS grad salaries so high. They are literally the cause why fresh CS grad with 1 year of experience says no to a 140k salary in NYC/Boston. (at least before the first wave of layoffs)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

by 10xDev 3y ago

clusterhacks 3y ago

You may be interested in looking at the current Taulbee survey[1] - it surveys PhD granting CS and CE programs and collects MS and BS degree numbers as well. I also found [2] that shows "computer and information science" graduates having a higher-than-average unemployment rate than other degrees. In 2018. My anecdotal experience over the last 15 years as a person on the hiring side of the table is that my organization has received multiple qualified applicants for our open positions, several of who are almost always new CS grads looking for their first job. And my organization is in an area with multiple companies that hire software engineers and we typically pay somewhat below market. That experience makes me question if there is now (or even has been in that 15 years) an actual shortage of candidates for these types of jobs. [1-pdf] https://cra.org/crn/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2023/05/2022-Taulbee-Survey-Final.pdf [2-pdf] https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/pdf/coe_sbc.pdf

gopher2000 3y ago

Are you sure we're reaching that point? The market has certainly cooled but tech jobs are still available. I do think that many new grads will have to adjust their expectations from high 6 figure jobs in FAANGs to normal-but-still-fine compensation in tier 3-4 companies. I would also argue that it's hard to predict what the market looks like 4 years into the future. That's a reality people should acknowledge when they start a CS degree, etc.

JAlexoid 3y ago
Long story short - I would advise to not go into debt for a top tier CS degree, unless truly passionate. I am fortunate enough to have been educated in Europe and without any student debt. I can switch careers, without needing to keep income at a level to pay living expenses and loans.
- rsanek 3y ago
  most student loans in the US have very low required minimum payments. that's part of why these loans can stick around for decades.
  - fomine3 3y ago
    APR is another important factor
- gopher2000 3y ago
  So what would you advise?
hn_go_brrrrr 3y ago
No new grad making even mid six figures. High six figures is only reached at pretty senior levels most FAANG employees won't reach.

dijit 3y ago

I had a theory that FAANG (et al.) are implicitly trying to solve the problem of developer salaries. If we take things back to basics: supply and demand. If your biggest cost is developer salaries, then making a huge supply of developers is the best way to suppress those wages. I have long felt that the push to get women and minorities into coding was driven by this: to get as many people coding as possible so that supply was not constrained and developers could no longer name their price. I do not believe that Sundar carries Sergei's principles of making people want to work at google for a long time; I think of him more like a businessman (same as Tim Cook, actually). No strong principles, just pushing the company forward. For them the "company" is the C-Level and the branding and the partners. Not the employed.

JAlexoid 3y ago
It's their own fault for driving CS grad salaries so high. They are literally the cause why fresh CS grad with 1 year of experience says no to a 140k salary in NYC/Boston. (at least before the first wave of layoffs)
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]