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It might not be the primary reason but it certainly doesn't help. Back in high school, I was really excited to join the robotics team and I really had a passion

by anichan 14y ago

It might not be the primary reason but it certainly doesn't help. Back in high school, I was really excited to join the robotics team and I really had a passion for it but I only stayed in it for a year before quitting. I was the only girl on the team and the attitude people took with me was infuriating. It felt like such a boy's club. Sure, you can just pass it off as "boys will be boys", high school boys are stupid and immature. But even the adult mentors were so exclusionary. I had to fight tooth and nail to be involved in the programming and building aspect of the competition even though just wanted to stick me to making their website look pretty. It took me a couple of years to get that bad taste out of my mouth. I initially didn't even go into college for a STEM degree before I worked myself up to take Computer Engineering. When you have experiences like that in high school and you hear stories about sexism in the workforce, it's intimidating to enter a field even if you do enjoy it. I'm glad I made the choice I did but the vibe other women get from degrees like CS isn't conducive to promoting a better gender balance.

127 14y ago
Thanks, it is interesting to hear from personal experience what it is like.
JanezStupar 14y ago
Not that this applies to you, but I have seen a female programmer (co worker) invoke the chauvinist card, when in fact she was no good as programmer. She wanted to be involved, she wanted to do cool stuff. But she didn't have the basics dialed at all and didn't have the work ethic to pick it up at an accelerated pace. As far as I have seen the guys in hard fields (as AI and Robotics) are pretty selective bunch and will not allow someone with average skills amongst them. You have to be flat out and you have to impress them with your skills. Be a gal or a guy, but if you haven't done you're homework beforehand then you're not welcome in their club. On the other hand, competent and driven engineers have in my opinion always been accepted as an equal. But I have only met a handful of women willing to put in the necessary work.
- slantyyz 14y ago
  > I have seen a female programmer (co worker) invoke the chauvinist card Incompetent people will invoke whatever card is convenient for them, whether it's sexism, racism, ageism, what have you. > But I have only met a handful of women willing to put in the necessary work. If I were to go by my experience of people in tech (which includes non-startup environments), only a small portion of people are willing to put in the necessary work - male or female. There's a higher concentration of people of people willing to pay their dues in the smaller companies like startups, but I'm not convinced that percentage-wise, the "handful of women" you talk of is any worse than the percentage of men in tech on the whole, which includes the non-startup world. Remember, the 501s outnumber the "hardcore" people by a huge margin, and a vast majority of the 501s are men.
  - JanezStupar 14y ago
    > Incompetent people will invoke whatever card is convenient for them, whether it's sexism, racism, ageism, what have you. Of course they will, but then the pathologic PC people will attack anyone calling them out on it. With this modern attitude that no one should ever get hurt, we are giving a carte blanche to the rotten apples. Just keep that in mind. > There's a higher concentration of people of people willing to pay their dues in the smaller companies like startups, but I'm not convinced that percentage-wise, the "handful of women" you talk of is any worse than the percentage of men in tech on the whole, which includes the non-startup world. The handful of women I talk about were absolutely brilliant and could and did go in stride with the best of us guys. And thus they were accepted as a part of the team. I have never thought of a coworker "she is incompetent because she is a woman" but I have thought of a coworker "she is incompetent and expects to get away with it because she is a woman". Many women often try to play their sex to their advantage when in a bad position. e.g.: I have never heard of a woman demand to be given a ticket by a policeman, when in fact such would be the law. Tech people just have really low tolerance for bullshit and don't care as much about etiquette. That is all I'm trying to say. Being politically correct for the sake of it won't do much for quality of engineering being done.
    - deleted 14y ago
slantyyz 14y ago
As a guy in the tech industry, I myself can't stand working in a "sausage factory". Homogeneity makes people complacent. The guard comes down, and the 'behaviour filter' that people would otherwise have in a more heterogenous environment disappears. This type of thing bugs me because I worry that it desensitizes me and makes me careless when I visit clients, or change workplaces.

by anichan 14y ago

127 14y ago

Thanks, it is interesting to hear from personal experience what it is like.

JanezStupar 14y ago

Not that this applies to you, but I have seen a female programmer (co worker) invoke the chauvinist card, when in fact she was no good as programmer. She wanted to be involved, she wanted to do cool stuff. But she didn't have the basics dialed at all and didn't have the work ethic to pick it up at an accelerated pace. As far as I have seen the guys in hard fields (as AI and Robotics) are pretty selective bunch and will not allow someone with average skills amongst them. You have to be flat out and you have to impress them with your skills. Be a gal or a guy, but if you haven't done you're homework beforehand then you're not welcome in their club. On the other hand, competent and driven engineers have in my opinion always been accepted as an equal. But I have only met a handful of women willing to put in the necessary work.

slantyyz 14y ago
> I have seen a female programmer (co worker) invoke the chauvinist card Incompetent people will invoke whatever card is convenient for them, whether it's sexism, racism, ageism, what have you. > But I have only met a handful of women willing to put in the necessary work. If I were to go by my experience of people in tech (which includes non-startup environments), only a small portion of people are willing to put in the necessary work - male or female. There's a higher concentration of people of people willing to pay their dues in the smaller companies like startups, but I'm not convinced that percentage-wise, the "handful of women" you talk of is any worse than the percentage of men in tech on the whole, which includes the non-startup world. Remember, the 501s outnumber the "hardcore" people by a huge margin, and a vast majority of the 501s are men.
- JanezStupar 14y ago
  > Incompetent people will invoke whatever card is convenient for them, whether it's sexism, racism, ageism, what have you. Of course they will, but then the pathologic PC people will attack anyone calling them out on it. With this modern attitude that no one should ever get hurt, we are giving a carte blanche to the rotten apples. Just keep that in mind. > There's a higher concentration of people of people willing to pay their dues in the smaller companies like startups, but I'm not convinced that percentage-wise, the "handful of women" you talk of is any worse than the percentage of men in tech on the whole, which includes the non-startup world. The handful of women I talk about were absolutely brilliant and could and did go in stride with the best of us guys. And thus they were accepted as a part of the team. I have never thought of a coworker "she is incompetent because she is a woman" but I have thought of a coworker "she is incompetent and expects to get away with it because she is a woman". Many women often try to play their sex to their advantage when in a bad position. e.g.: I have never heard of a woman demand to be given a ticket by a policeman, when in fact such would be the law. Tech people just have really low tolerance for bullshit and don't care as much about etiquette. That is all I'm trying to say. Being politically correct for the sake of it won't do much for quality of engineering being done.
  - deleted 14y ago

slantyyz 14y ago

As a guy in the tech industry, I myself can't stand working in a "sausage factory". Homogeneity makes people complacent. The guard comes down, and the 'behaviour filter' that people would otherwise have in a more heterogenous environment disappears. This type of thing bugs me because I worry that it desensitizes me and makes me careless when I visit clients, or change workplaces.