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That's bad news for the IT jobs market. The big tech companies are firing people - those people will have no problem finding another job, but that's a job taken

That's bad news for the IT jobs market. The big tech companies are firing people - those people will have no problem finding another job, but that's a job taken away from more average folks. Combined with high interest rates, that prevent businesses from starting new projects financed through credit. Also ChatGPT and other AIs increasing developers, artists, etc. productivity - so fewer people can do as much work. Probably demand for IT roles in 2024 is going to be lower than previous years and salaries may stagnate or go down.

themoonisachees 3y ago
Aren't googlers famously burnt out and only know how to use Google products because of dogfooding? I don't mean to demean the people just laid off, surely some of them at least know enough to operate other software suites, but hasn't this been identified as a common problem?
- alecco 3y ago
  CEO/HR people get the tingles with FAANG resumes. They don't know any of that.
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    That was when they were the darlings who did nothing but grow and snagging one of their employees was a stretch. Doing big layoffs kind of tarnishes the image.
- akoboldfrying 3y ago
  Don't know about burnout, the dogfooding is very real though. OTOH, they're pretty smart.
  - vintermann 3y ago
    I wonder if the well-documented nihism of Google, coupled with how all the marvellous internal Google tools seem to work a lot less well without their product teams running them, is secretly an employee retention strategy.
    - akoboldfrying 3y ago
      Feels like a stretch to me, I have to say. The only tool that comes to mind is Blaze/Bazel, which I haven't tried outside of Google, but the friction people experience is likely down to the fact that, outside of Google, you have to deal with a world that's more complicated than a single giant monorepo.
AnthonyMouse 3y ago
IT salaries are high mostly because the people who can do the job well can also do other jobs well, so if salaries go down then people change careers. For example, most people who can do IT could also become an electrician, for which the demand is currently high. > Also ChatGPT and other AIs increasing developers, artists, etc. productivity - so fewer people can do as much work. This is the sort of thing that increases demand for IT. Company had 40 artists and two IT staff, now they can get by with 10 artists but three IT staff, because IT has more work to do supporting the AI stuff.
- medo-bear 3y ago
  Most people who do IT can become an electrician ? Im curious why you think that. Also Im not too sure about high demands for electricians. This seems to rely on a booming real estate market which is in a whole world of trouble
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    > Most people who do IT can become an electrician ? Im curious why you think that. It's fundamentally the same kind of mix between following bureaucratic rules and manipulating man-made technology. > Also Im not too sure about high demands for electricians. This seems to rely on a booming real estate market which is in a whole world of trouble Real estate prices are still incredibly high, driven by undersupply of housing, which is unlikely to abate soon. As long as prices are high, construction will be profitable. If prices crash the Fed is likely to lower interest rates which makes construction profitable again, because the prices are lower but so are the construction company's borrowing costs. There also seems to be some political support for doing something about the high housing costs, like relaxing zoning rules, which would allow new construction in places it's currently prohibited.
    - medo-bear 3y ago
      > If prices crash the Fed is likely to lower interest rates which makes construction profitable again, because the prices are lower but so are the construction company's borrowing costs. The Fed? Not everyone lives in the Empire
jongjong 3y ago
Yep, not to mention that many of these engineers were already paid a fortune and are extremely over-hyped as they were basically just tiny cogs in a huge machine and they can't actually build anything on their own... Which is what is required for building software outside of big tech.
- 35775436 3y ago
  I agree. At the end of the day, FAANG engineers are just employees. I never understood the hype or the prestige they get. Also, unrelated but I've read your other comments and they are on point, you're too smart for HN. I say this unironically. This place can wear a man down fast.
  - jongjong 3y ago
    Thanks for the compliment. IMO, the concentration of smart people here is still very high. In most other forums, people don't even understand what I'm saying. Here it's like most people understand my comments but they disagree because they have an interest not to agree and so they require a higher standard of proof.

themoonisachees 3y ago

Aren't googlers famously burnt out and only know how to use Google products because of dogfooding? I don't mean to demean the people just laid off, surely some of them at least know enough to operate other software suites, but hasn't this been identified as a common problem?

alecco 3y ago
CEO/HR people get the tingles with FAANG resumes. They don't know any of that.
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  That was when they were the darlings who did nothing but grow and snagging one of their employees was a stretch. Doing big layoffs kind of tarnishes the image.
akoboldfrying 3y ago
Don't know about burnout, the dogfooding is very real though. OTOH, they're pretty smart.
- vintermann 3y ago
  I wonder if the well-documented nihism of Google, coupled with how all the marvellous internal Google tools seem to work a lot less well without their product teams running them, is secretly an employee retention strategy.
  - akoboldfrying 3y ago
    Feels like a stretch to me, I have to say. The only tool that comes to mind is Blaze/Bazel, which I haven't tried outside of Google, but the friction people experience is likely down to the fact that, outside of Google, you have to deal with a world that's more complicated than a single giant monorepo.

AnthonyMouse 3y ago

IT salaries are high mostly because the people who can do the job well can also do other jobs well, so if salaries go down then people change careers. For example, most people who can do IT could also become an electrician, for which the demand is currently high. > Also ChatGPT and other AIs increasing developers, artists, etc. productivity - so fewer people can do as much work. This is the sort of thing that increases demand for IT. Company had 40 artists and two IT staff, now they can get by with 10 artists but three IT staff, because IT has more work to do supporting the AI stuff.

medo-bear 3y ago
Most people who do IT can become an electrician ? Im curious why you think that. Also Im not too sure about high demands for electricians. This seems to rely on a booming real estate market which is in a whole world of trouble
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  > Most people who do IT can become an electrician ? Im curious why you think that. It's fundamentally the same kind of mix between following bureaucratic rules and manipulating man-made technology. > Also Im not too sure about high demands for electricians. This seems to rely on a booming real estate market which is in a whole world of trouble Real estate prices are still incredibly high, driven by undersupply of housing, which is unlikely to abate soon. As long as prices are high, construction will be profitable. If prices crash the Fed is likely to lower interest rates which makes construction profitable again, because the prices are lower but so are the construction company's borrowing costs. There also seems to be some political support for doing something about the high housing costs, like relaxing zoning rules, which would allow new construction in places it's currently prohibited.
  - medo-bear 3y ago
    > If prices crash the Fed is likely to lower interest rates which makes construction profitable again, because the prices are lower but so are the construction company's borrowing costs. The Fed? Not everyone lives in the Empire

jongjong 3y ago

Yep, not to mention that many of these engineers were already paid a fortune and are extremely over-hyped as they were basically just tiny cogs in a huge machine and they can't actually build anything on their own... Which is what is required for building software outside of big tech.

35775436 3y ago
I agree. At the end of the day, FAANG engineers are just employees. I never understood the hype or the prestige they get. Also, unrelated but I've read your other comments and they are on point, you're too smart for HN. I say this unironically. This place can wear a man down fast.
- jongjong 3y ago
  Thanks for the compliment. IMO, the concentration of smart people here is still very high. In most other forums, people don't even understand what I'm saying. Here it's like most people understand my comments but they disagree because they have an interest not to agree and so they require a higher standard of proof.