8 ms·

Could a moderator change the "Teams" in the title to lowercase (as it is in the article)? Capitalizing Teams misleadingly implies it's regarding Microsoft's cha

by shrx 3y ago

Could a moderator change the "Teams" in the title to lowercase (as it is in the article)? Capitalizing Teams misleadingly implies it's regarding Microsoft's chat platform.

cald0s 3y ago
But that's how headlines work
- pests 3y ago
  I agree, but why didn't the original article do it? Or did they see the potential for confusion and deliberately not? When a common word is a product / brand, how do you use that word in a title without bringing up associations with that product / brand? Isn't the guidelines to submit the title as-is, no editorializing?
  - dspillett 3y ago
    > but why didn't the original article do it? Local style guide says not to capitalise headlines, presumably. Though you are right, the general rule here is not to change headlines and that should probably apply to style as well as wording. Looking at other posts on the main list there seems to be a mix as the original styles (sentence cap, all words capitalised, all but articles, …) have been kept.
  - midasuni 3y ago
    You could argue that Microsoft’s claim on common words (Teams, Windows) is the problem here.
    - pests 3y ago
      You could, but I think that ship has sailed.
- justincormack 3y ago
  The UK stopped capitalising every word in headlines back in the 1980s maybe earlier. It looks much nicer and is more readable. The bold tells you it is a geadline. US newspaper graphic design seems very retro to me.
  - mmh0000 3y ago
    It really depends on what style guide a news organization follows. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_case https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_case
  - F7F7F7 3y ago
    The majority of designers I know prefer tile case. Whether it’s a printed poster or in-app UI. Look no further than “Add Comment” at the top of this page.
    - nathancahill 3y ago
      What? It says "add comment"
- midasuni 3y ago
  The page title is “ChatGPT for teams”
lysecret 3y ago
Ok, big noob question I never understood how to capitalize headlines correctly. Can someone eli5 ?:D
- rvense 3y ago
  In English, the most common convention is to capitalize every word, or every word except small ones like articles and prepositions (the, of, for).
  - justincormack 3y ago
    In US English. Not in the UK.
  - closewith 3y ago
    That's region-specific. Certainly not a feature of the language.
    - throwaway22045 3y ago
      It's a feature of the language dialect.
- slhck 3y ago
  Generally, capitalize longer words. But this really depends on the style book you choose to follow (MLA, APA, CMOS). See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_case
- dabber 3y ago
  > I never understood how to capitalize headlines correctly. Can someone eli5 ?:D On HN, copy/paste is usually a safe bet (with a few exceptions): https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html If you mean in general, Wikipedia sums it up pretty well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_case
  - 3y ago
lwhi 3y ago
I disagree. We shouldn't assume a basic sentence capitalised word refers to a product. If a reference to a product is intended, we should clarify that association some other way; i.e. MS Teams.
- tgv 3y ago
  The reading process is automatic. It's quite likely that capitalized "Teams" is read by may as the product name. And it's reasonable, because in most daily contexts, "teams" refers to actual "teams" and "Teams" refers to the product. Nobody (including you) is going to teach them to stop doing that. Adapting a rather dumb capitalization rule is a lot easier. I do agree that editors should read their topics critically and add disambiguating text (if possible and permitted).
  - codetrotter 3y ago
    Teams is a very generic product name. Microsoft can live with the consequences of that. When I read the headline, I was not thinking of MS Teams. Because I only use MS Teams a few rare times a year. Mainly I use Zoom. But even if OpenAI had an article that with the rules of headline capitalization of HN ended up reading “Dall-E adds Zoom Feature” I would have imagined that it was about being able to zoom into pictures. Not automatically assumed that it had anything to do with Zoom. Even though I use Zoom almost every day.
    - gbalduzzi 3y ago
      > Teams is a very generic product name. Microsoft can live with the consequences of that. Quite the contrary, Microsoft earns free advertisement from this. The problem is for the people that misunderstand the heading, not for Microsoft Ok, you would understand it correctly even the Zoom example. So? Heading should be optimized for the most possible amount of people, there is a clear possibility that a lot of people misunderstand the title, so why not simply edit it? In that case neither you nor anyone else would understand something wrong
      - 3y ago
ddano 3y ago
Or maybe you are spreading the anti ai ai club movement > https://twitter.com/daniel_nguyenx/status/1745085875027956176 https://twitter.com/daniel_nguyenx/status/174508587502795617... :D j/k but finding it pretty funny these days that more and more people are switching to lowercase, assuming it started from this @sama tweet: https://twitter.com/sama/status/1735123080564167048 https://twitter.com/sama/status/1735123080564167048
- cameronh90 3y ago
  Maybe in the AI Twittersphere it started with sama, but it’s been becoming common in Gen Z culture for a few years now. If you look up popular bands at the moment, you’ll find a decent chunk of them only use lowercase in their band and song names.
  - ddano 3y ago
    It is a weird trend.
    - wholinator2 3y ago
      The phone only auto capitalizes the first letter of a sentence. If you end up changing it sometimes it doesn't get replaced with a capital. If you get frustrated with autocorrect features, often modern phones don't allow you to select which features to turn off and you're forced to turn everything off, at least that's how it was during the time i learned to type with the phone. I'm not gen z but I'd say it has a lot to do with it being much more cumbersome to capitalize a letter on the phone than the keyboard. Plus, there's also the aesthetic, for a while we did it out of angst and to show we weren't all that wrapped up in the modern sensibilities. It seems like the situation as society moved forward may have only gotten worse for this. If you're confused about something gen z does, it's either: 1) they're teenagers and grew up with phones, get with the times old man 2) a large corporation that didn't have a monolopy on communication (maybe basically everything else too) when you grew up now does and its an artifact of being forced to grow in that world 3) global warming is scary as shit, no one in power seems to give a shit, economies are crumbling, we're temporarily losing the worldwide battle for continued democracy, why wont they stop the war, school shootings, nuclear destruction isn't too close but doesn't look like it's getting farther away, etc etc etc. Basically, "have you seen the world? Why are you even trying, let alone the teenagers today?" type thing.
seydor 3y ago
All this time i thought it was a microsoft feature, which is now confusing, won't microsoft integrate basically GPT4 in Teams?
hmottestad 3y ago
I also assumed that this was ChatGPT for MS Teams. The title that the webpage uses is "ChatGPT for teams" and I believe that HN tries to use the titles from the linked page verbatim.
- throwup238 3y ago
  HN autocapitalizes titles based on a standard English guideline (Chicago probably).
- diggan 3y ago
  The title on the submitted webpage is "ChatGPT Team", singular.
  - jasode 3y ago
    >The title on the submitted webpage is "ChatGPT Team", singular. Your reply is adding more confusion. The "ChatGPT Team" is the title of the webpage from a user comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38942936 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38942936 (The capitalized "Team" is part of a Branded Product Name.) The "ChatGPT for teams" (lowercase 't') is the actual original title of the submitted webpage for the whole thread: https://openai.com/chatgpt/team https://openai.com/chatgpt/team (The lowercase "teams" is a generic noun to describe the intended users.)
    - LordDragonfang 3y ago
      >"ChatGPT Team" is the title of the webpage from a user comment... "ChatGPT for teams" (lowercase 't') is the actual original title of the submitted webpage Sorry, I think you're the one adding confusion. "ChatGPT for teams" is not the title of the submitted webpage. It's the heading of the article on that page, but the actual title, as shown in the tab strip and defined in the html header, is "ChatGPT Team": view-source:https://openai.com/chatgpt/team <meta property="og:title" content="ChatGPT Team"> Hacker New's code uses the html title element (which in this case is actually a meta element) to automatically title submissions.
jug 3y ago
Yeah, same here. Regarding that, this is essentially that (same LLM and all) https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-teams-blog/the-next-wave-of-copilot-in-microsoft-teams/ba-p/3872842 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-teams-blog/...
riffic 3y ago
maybe Microsoft shouldn't have overloaded a generic word as a brand then.
- jksmith 3y ago
  You'll own no words and be happy.
randomdata 3y ago
Said chat platform explicitly calls itself "Microsoft Teams". You know that it is not being referred to because there is no mention of its name.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
beeboobaa 3y ago
Microsoft is the misleading one here for calling their generic chat platform "Teams". Are you also going to complain if someone releases a platform called "The"?
- hammock 3y ago
  Someone call Apple. I've been hungry for a long time
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jollyllama 3y ago
Pervasive and baffling. I can't decide if lack of attention to name conflicts in marketing is the norm or if it's intentional.

by shrx 3y ago

Could a moderator change the "Teams" in the title to lowercase (as it is in the article)? Capitalizing Teams misleadingly implies it's regarding Microsoft's chat platform.

cald0s 3y ago

But that's how headlines work

pests 3y ago
I agree, but why didn't the original article do it? Or did they see the potential for confusion and deliberately not? When a common word is a product / brand, how do you use that word in a title without bringing up associations with that product / brand? Isn't the guidelines to submit the title as-is, no editorializing?
- dspillett 3y ago
  > but why didn't the original article do it? Local style guide says not to capitalise headlines, presumably. Though you are right, the general rule here is not to change headlines and that should probably apply to style as well as wording. Looking at other posts on the main list there seems to be a mix as the original styles (sentence cap, all words capitalised, all but articles, …) have been kept.
- midasuni 3y ago
  You could argue that Microsoft’s claim on common words (Teams, Windows) is the problem here.
  - pests 3y ago
    You could, but I think that ship has sailed.
justincormack 3y ago
The UK stopped capitalising every word in headlines back in the 1980s maybe earlier. It looks much nicer and is more readable. The bold tells you it is a geadline. US newspaper graphic design seems very retro to me.
- mmh0000 3y ago
  It really depends on what style guide a news organization follows. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_case https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_case
- F7F7F7 3y ago
  The majority of designers I know prefer tile case. Whether it’s a printed poster or in-app UI. Look no further than “Add Comment” at the top of this page.
  - nathancahill 3y ago
    What? It says "add comment"
midasuni 3y ago
The page title is “ChatGPT for teams”

lysecret 3y ago

Ok, big noob question I never understood how to capitalize headlines correctly. Can someone eli5 ?:D

rvense 3y ago
In English, the most common convention is to capitalize every word, or every word except small ones like articles and prepositions (the, of, for).
- justincormack 3y ago
  In US English. Not in the UK.
- closewith 3y ago
  That's region-specific. Certainly not a feature of the language.
  - throwaway22045 3y ago
    It's a feature of the language dialect.
slhck 3y ago
Generally, capitalize longer words. But this really depends on the style book you choose to follow (MLA, APA, CMOS). See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_case
dabber 3y ago
> I never understood how to capitalize headlines correctly. Can someone eli5 ?:D On HN, copy/paste is usually a safe bet (with a few exceptions): https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html If you mean in general, Wikipedia sums it up pretty well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_case
- 3y ago

lwhi 3y ago

I disagree. We shouldn't assume a basic sentence capitalised word refers to a product. If a reference to a product is intended, we should clarify that association some other way; i.e. MS Teams.

tgv 3y ago
The reading process is automatic. It's quite likely that capitalized "Teams" is read by may as the product name. And it's reasonable, because in most daily contexts, "teams" refers to actual "teams" and "Teams" refers to the product. Nobody (including you) is going to teach them to stop doing that. Adapting a rather dumb capitalization rule is a lot easier. I do agree that editors should read their topics critically and add disambiguating text (if possible and permitted).
- codetrotter 3y ago
  Teams is a very generic product name. Microsoft can live with the consequences of that. When I read the headline, I was not thinking of MS Teams. Because I only use MS Teams a few rare times a year. Mainly I use Zoom. But even if OpenAI had an article that with the rules of headline capitalization of HN ended up reading “Dall-E adds Zoom Feature” I would have imagined that it was about being able to zoom into pictures. Not automatically assumed that it had anything to do with Zoom. Even though I use Zoom almost every day.
  - gbalduzzi 3y ago
    > Teams is a very generic product name. Microsoft can live with the consequences of that. Quite the contrary, Microsoft earns free advertisement from this. The problem is for the people that misunderstand the heading, not for Microsoft Ok, you would understand it correctly even the Zoom example. So? Heading should be optimized for the most possible amount of people, there is a clear possibility that a lot of people misunderstand the title, so why not simply edit it? In that case neither you nor anyone else would understand something wrong
    - 3y ago

ddano 3y ago

Or maybe you are spreading the anti ai ai club movement > https://twitter.com/daniel_nguyenx/status/1745085875027956176 https://twitter.com/daniel_nguyenx/status/174508587502795617... :D j/k but finding it pretty funny these days that more and more people are switching to lowercase, assuming it started from this @sama tweet: https://twitter.com/sama/status/1735123080564167048 https://twitter.com/sama/status/1735123080564167048

cameronh90 3y ago
Maybe in the AI Twittersphere it started with sama, but it’s been becoming common in Gen Z culture for a few years now. If you look up popular bands at the moment, you’ll find a decent chunk of them only use lowercase in their band and song names.
- ddano 3y ago
  It is a weird trend.
  - wholinator2 3y ago
    The phone only auto capitalizes the first letter of a sentence. If you end up changing it sometimes it doesn't get replaced with a capital. If you get frustrated with autocorrect features, often modern phones don't allow you to select which features to turn off and you're forced to turn everything off, at least that's how it was during the time i learned to type with the phone. I'm not gen z but I'd say it has a lot to do with it being much more cumbersome to capitalize a letter on the phone than the keyboard. Plus, there's also the aesthetic, for a while we did it out of angst and to show we weren't all that wrapped up in the modern sensibilities. It seems like the situation as society moved forward may have only gotten worse for this. If you're confused about something gen z does, it's either: 1) they're teenagers and grew up with phones, get with the times old man 2) a large corporation that didn't have a monolopy on communication (maybe basically everything else too) when you grew up now does and its an artifact of being forced to grow in that world 3) global warming is scary as shit, no one in power seems to give a shit, economies are crumbling, we're temporarily losing the worldwide battle for continued democracy, why wont they stop the war, school shootings, nuclear destruction isn't too close but doesn't look like it's getting farther away, etc etc etc. Basically, "have you seen the world? Why are you even trying, let alone the teenagers today?" type thing.

seydor 3y ago

All this time i thought it was a microsoft feature, which is now confusing, won't microsoft integrate basically GPT4 in Teams?

hmottestad 3y ago

I also assumed that this was ChatGPT for MS Teams. The title that the webpage uses is "ChatGPT for teams" and I believe that HN tries to use the titles from the linked page verbatim.

throwup238 3y ago
HN autocapitalizes titles based on a standard English guideline (Chicago probably).
diggan 3y ago
The title on the submitted webpage is "ChatGPT Team", singular.
- jasode 3y ago
  >The title on the submitted webpage is "ChatGPT Team", singular. Your reply is adding more confusion. The "ChatGPT Team" is the title of the webpage from a user comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38942936 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38942936 (The capitalized "Team" is part of a Branded Product Name.) The "ChatGPT for teams" (lowercase 't') is the actual original title of the submitted webpage for the whole thread: https://openai.com/chatgpt/team https://openai.com/chatgpt/team (The lowercase "teams" is a generic noun to describe the intended users.)
  - LordDragonfang 3y ago
    >"ChatGPT Team" is the title of the webpage from a user comment... "ChatGPT for teams" (lowercase 't') is the actual original title of the submitted webpage Sorry, I think you're the one adding confusion. "ChatGPT for teams" is not the title of the submitted webpage. It's the heading of the article on that page, but the actual title, as shown in the tab strip and defined in the html header, is "ChatGPT Team": view-source:https://openai.com/chatgpt/team <meta property="og:title" content="ChatGPT Team"> Hacker New's code uses the html title element (which in this case is actually a meta element) to automatically title submissions.

jug 3y ago

Yeah, same here. Regarding that, this is essentially that (same LLM and all) https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-teams-blog/the-next-wave-of-copilot-in-microsoft-teams/ba-p/3872842 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-teams-blog/...

riffic 3y ago

maybe Microsoft shouldn't have overloaded a generic word as a brand then.

jksmith 3y ago
You'll own no words and be happy.

randomdata 3y ago

Said chat platform explicitly calls itself "Microsoft Teams". You know that it is not being referred to because there is no mention of its name.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

beeboobaa 3y ago

Microsoft is the misleading one here for calling their generic chat platform "Teams". Are you also going to complain if someone releases a platform called "The"?

hammock 3y ago
Someone call Apple. I've been hungry for a long time

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jollyllama 3y ago

Pervasive and baffling. I can't decide if lack of attention to name conflicts in marketing is the norm or if it's intentional.