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I view Bitcoin the same way I view Herbalife. I don't have any issue with the product. I'm bothered by the misleading claims made by proponents to benefit thems

by Aunche 3y ago

I view Bitcoin the same way I view Herbalife. I don't have any issue with the product. I'm bothered by the misleading claims made by proponents to benefit themselves.

cableshaft 3y ago
Perfectly valid view in my opinion. There are a lot of misleading claims out there, to be sure.
obviouslynew 3y ago
Well Herbalife is a corporate entity, that has governing leadership that you can challenge its 'claims' because the corporate entity makes them, sells it to people who don't know better etc. Conceptually, that means that Herbalife gives people false information, they take that and perpetuate it in their MLM for their benefit. Bitcoin, is piece of open source software that was released on the internet 13 years ago running all over the world. With no central governing entity, all driven by software consensus mechanisms. Would you consider that you just don't like some of the organizations that have built themselves around this network making misleading claims? Rather than the technology itself?
- Aunche 3y ago
  I used a leaky analogy, so I'll explain more precisely what I mean. When someone tries to sell their MLM, they pretend that they want to help you get rich, but it's obvious that they just want to help themselves. I get the same vibe from Bitcoin enthusiasts. For example, they'll claim that Bitcoin will help the poor in countries with hyperinflation but that seems disingenuous. Perhaps it's not fair to expect the regular Bitcoin holder to actively help the unbanked thousands of miles away, but there doesn't even seem to be a curiosity in the entire Bitcoin community about whether it's actually it's actually used that way, let alone how to encourage adoption and what the macroeconomic implications of this.
dghlsakjg 3y ago
This is really what it comes down to. I really didn't mind bitcoin before the price exploded, it was a curiosity and interesting experiment. Since then, it has been used to transfer a lot of wealth using outright fraud, cons, and other criminal means. I get paid a lot of money (fiat) to program digital payment systems, and have spent time understanding the underlying technology, as well as a holding a degree in economics. I get what crypto is and how it works, and I won't go near it. Bitcoin isn't inherently dangerous, but the way that the crypto ecosystem convinces people to gamble on a zero sum game they don't understand is absolutely dangerous. For every bitcoin millionaire, there's someone that pumped real dollars into the system. Very real harms have, and continue, to be caused by bitcoin and crypto.
- mlcrypto 3y ago
  For every boomer retiree there's a young person pumping new money into the S&P and social security
  - dghlsakjg 3y ago
    That’s not how stocks work outside of daytrading/short term holding. My ownership of a stock is a claim on a portion of a company’s assets and future productive addition to the economy. The stock market is a positive sum game. If I buy a share of ABC Gold mining company, it’s because I expect them to dig some actual gold out of the ground and expanding the economy. They can distribute a dividend to me after then selling that gold. No one has added any money to the stock market, but I am wealthier.
    - npoc 3y ago
      Same applies to bitcoin - no more net value needs to be invested into bitcoin and the USD price will continue to increase at ~7%, which is the rate at which the USD is being devalued through supply inflation over the last 100 years. If I lent my bitcoin to ABC Gold Mining like you have, then I could expect to additionally receive interest on my loan.
- toenail 3y ago
LAMike 3y ago
Herbalife is a pyramid scheme... Bitcoin is an open source payment system. Delusional take

by Aunche 3y ago

I view Bitcoin the same way I view Herbalife. I don't have any issue with the product. I'm bothered by the misleading claims made by proponents to benefit themselves.

cableshaft 3y ago

Perfectly valid view in my opinion. There are a lot of misleading claims out there, to be sure.

obviouslynew 3y ago

Well Herbalife is a corporate entity, that has governing leadership that you can challenge its 'claims' because the corporate entity makes them, sells it to people who don't know better etc. Conceptually, that means that Herbalife gives people false information, they take that and perpetuate it in their MLM for their benefit. Bitcoin, is piece of open source software that was released on the internet 13 years ago running all over the world. With no central governing entity, all driven by software consensus mechanisms. Would you consider that you just don't like some of the organizations that have built themselves around this network making misleading claims? Rather than the technology itself?

Aunche 3y ago
I used a leaky analogy, so I'll explain more precisely what I mean. When someone tries to sell their MLM, they pretend that they want to help you get rich, but it's obvious that they just want to help themselves. I get the same vibe from Bitcoin enthusiasts. For example, they'll claim that Bitcoin will help the poor in countries with hyperinflation but that seems disingenuous. Perhaps it's not fair to expect the regular Bitcoin holder to actively help the unbanked thousands of miles away, but there doesn't even seem to be a curiosity in the entire Bitcoin community about whether it's actually it's actually used that way, let alone how to encourage adoption and what the macroeconomic implications of this.

dghlsakjg 3y ago

This is really what it comes down to. I really didn't mind bitcoin before the price exploded, it was a curiosity and interesting experiment. Since then, it has been used to transfer a lot of wealth using outright fraud, cons, and other criminal means. I get paid a lot of money (fiat) to program digital payment systems, and have spent time understanding the underlying technology, as well as a holding a degree in economics. I get what crypto is and how it works, and I won't go near it. Bitcoin isn't inherently dangerous, but the way that the crypto ecosystem convinces people to gamble on a zero sum game they don't understand is absolutely dangerous. For every bitcoin millionaire, there's someone that pumped real dollars into the system. Very real harms have, and continue, to be caused by bitcoin and crypto.

mlcrypto 3y ago
For every boomer retiree there's a young person pumping new money into the S&P and social security
- dghlsakjg 3y ago
  That’s not how stocks work outside of daytrading/short term holding. My ownership of a stock is a claim on a portion of a company’s assets and future productive addition to the economy. The stock market is a positive sum game. If I buy a share of ABC Gold mining company, it’s because I expect them to dig some actual gold out of the ground and expanding the economy. They can distribute a dividend to me after then selling that gold. No one has added any money to the stock market, but I am wealthier.
  - npoc 3y ago
    Same applies to bitcoin - no more net value needs to be invested into bitcoin and the USD price will continue to increase at ~7%, which is the rate at which the USD is being devalued through supply inflation over the last 100 years. If I lent my bitcoin to ABC Gold Mining like you have, then I could expect to additionally receive interest on my loan.
toenail 3y ago

LAMike 3y ago

Herbalife is a pyramid scheme... Bitcoin is an open source payment system. Delusional take