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Does anyone know to what degree the Section 174 changes are responsible for this market? It's been brought up separately in a few venues with dire warnings, but

Does anyone know to what degree the Section 174 changes are responsible for this market? It's been brought up separately in a few venues with dire warnings, but I've rarely seen it mentioned when people are talking about the current job market.

alephnerd 3y ago
Pretty significantly. Before I switched to my current career, I was a PM at a pretty large software company that had a massive layoff in our US HQ and pivoted hiring almost entirely to Eastern Europe, Israel, and India in anticipation of this. Nowadays we only hire a handful of strategic roles in the US - everything else R&D wise is abroad. Other peer companies in our sector did the same. We had other considerations too (eg. Lack of RoI on US talent) but 174 was a driving factor
- selimthegrim 3y ago
  Would you consider taking an R&D role in Europe if you were US talent?
  - shiroiuma 3y ago
    I'm only answering in general, not personally, but this question is too vague. Would you take a job in your specialty in the US? If your answer is "yes", great! It's located in Nome, Alaska. Still interested? There's a world of difference between living in Netherlands and Bulgaria, just like life in Honolulu is almost nothing like life in rural Alaska or NYC or rural Kansas.
    - thesnide 3y ago
      Rural Alaska seems rather a nice isolated place for a typical HN commenter...
      - selimthegrim 3y ago
        My dad did consider taking a medical job in Soldotna...
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    I am US talent, and nope. It's tough for new grads, but not too bad for experienced US citizens. Worst case I can work for the State or Federal government (especially now that all critical Tech roles have been classified as GS-14/15 now) and still earn more than as senior leadership in Europe.
    - selimthegrim 3y ago
      My problem is I have a few years of experience, but was in academia for a while, so I think it’s hard for them to evaluate me.
- throwaway5959 3y ago
  Can you expand on this: Lack of RoI on US talent ?
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    In my portion of the tech industry (Cybersecurity/Infra), there isn't enough talent in the US, so we'd end up paying a new grad roughly the same amount we could pay an 8200 veteran in Israel or a Flipkart security alum in India. The latter have more experience than the new grad, so we're getting RoI much quicker.
    - throwaway5959 3y ago
      Why not relocate the whole operation to Israel or India then? Surely the costs must be cheaper there for your role as well.
      - alephnerd 3y ago
        Not working as a PM anymore, but it is happening. Within 5-7 years most Cybersecurity PMs will end up being in Israel+India, along with Eng staff. All that will be left in the US is PMM and Sales Engineering. This is the model the newer gen of Cybersecurity Startups are following (eg. Wiz, Cyera, etc).
dccoolgai 3y ago
Made a comment above. If SEs understood or could deign to get involved in politics at all, this would be reformed. It's 1) enormous 2) Poorly understood/ discussed

alephnerd 3y ago

Pretty significantly. Before I switched to my current career, I was a PM at a pretty large software company that had a massive layoff in our US HQ and pivoted hiring almost entirely to Eastern Europe, Israel, and India in anticipation of this. Nowadays we only hire a handful of strategic roles in the US - everything else R&D wise is abroad. Other peer companies in our sector did the same. We had other considerations too (eg. Lack of RoI on US talent) but 174 was a driving factor

selimthegrim 3y ago
Would you consider taking an R&D role in Europe if you were US talent?
- shiroiuma 3y ago
  I'm only answering in general, not personally, but this question is too vague. Would you take a job in your specialty in the US? If your answer is "yes", great! It's located in Nome, Alaska. Still interested? There's a world of difference between living in Netherlands and Bulgaria, just like life in Honolulu is almost nothing like life in rural Alaska or NYC or rural Kansas.
  - thesnide 3y ago
    Rural Alaska seems rather a nice isolated place for a typical HN commenter...
    - selimthegrim 3y ago
      My dad did consider taking a medical job in Soldotna...
- alephnerd 3y ago
  I am US talent, and nope. It's tough for new grads, but not too bad for experienced US citizens. Worst case I can work for the State or Federal government (especially now that all critical Tech roles have been classified as GS-14/15 now) and still earn more than as senior leadership in Europe.
  - selimthegrim 3y ago
    My problem is I have a few years of experience, but was in academia for a while, so I think it’s hard for them to evaluate me.
throwaway5959 3y ago
Can you expand on this: Lack of RoI on US talent ?
- alephnerd 3y ago
  In my portion of the tech industry (Cybersecurity/Infra), there isn't enough talent in the US, so we'd end up paying a new grad roughly the same amount we could pay an 8200 veteran in Israel or a Flipkart security alum in India. The latter have more experience than the new grad, so we're getting RoI much quicker.
  - throwaway5959 3y ago
    Why not relocate the whole operation to Israel or India then? Surely the costs must be cheaper there for your role as well.
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      Not working as a PM anymore, but it is happening. Within 5-7 years most Cybersecurity PMs will end up being in Israel+India, along with Eng staff. All that will be left in the US is PMM and Sales Engineering. This is the model the newer gen of Cybersecurity Startups are following (eg. Wiz, Cyera, etc).

dccoolgai 3y ago

Made a comment above. If SEs understood or could deign to get involved in politics at all, this would be reformed. It's 1) enormous 2) Poorly understood/ discussed