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> Students chanted “Free Palestine” (...) with fury and at times glee, like they were reciting catchy songs instead of slogans demanding the erasure of the Jewi

> Students chanted “Free Palestine” (...) with fury and at times glee, like they were reciting catchy songs instead of slogans demanding the erasure of the Jewish people. It seems the author is incapable of distinguishing pro-Palestine from pro-Hamas, and equally incapable of distinguishing anti-Israel from anti-semitism. A pity from someone who is ostensibly advocating from critical thinking. I always find it fascinating how many anti-Palestinians insist it's an atrocity not to condemn Hamas, but themselves see no reason at all to condemn Israel, which has now rendered Gaza "uninhabitable": https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/05/un-warns-gaza-is-now-uninhabitable-as-war-continues https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/05/un-warns-gaza-... To be clear: Hamas is a horrific terrorist organization. The vast majority of people are not advocating for or defending them. Most Pro-Palestinian protestors are, however clumsy their wording, advocating for the right of Palestinian citizens, women and children, to have a safe place to live.

Onavo 3y ago
I mean what do you expect? If you ask the Native Americans two hundred years ago, or the Hawaiians a century ago, I doubt they would have anything good to say either. Ultimately when two parties claim the same piece of land and one is militarily superior, it's no wonder the other party hates their guts. I don't understand why people bend backwards trying to defend the slogan. Sure it's hate speech, but it's very justified hate speech because both parties do hate each other and want to expel their counterparts from the land they both claim. Pretending that both just secretly want to live in peace is patronizing and rob them of their agency. If they want to kill each other, let them. There's no need to appeal to moral righteousness. Yes, children and innocents are dying. Yes, the US government is picking sides. Yes, one side like to use terrorist tactics. Yes, one side likes to assassinate opponent scientists and engineers on foreign soil. Yes, the calculus of the US foreign policy does not care about morality outside of public relations. Yes, the Jewish diaspora is influential. Yes, they are being harassed by members of the other Abrahamic religion. Yes, they are being persecuted in some parts of the world. All these can be simultaneously true and still nothing will change about the situation. If the Muslim religious groups in the US truly care so much about support among US academia, perhaps they should donate more. The only reason why the Harvard presidency fiasco happened was because the board said so. If their religion and culture wasn't so insular and limit their donations to their particular in-group, then they would have a greater say in how upper class education institutions are ran. The house of Saud and the Qataris and Emirates have plenty of money. They should consider donating to the state schools instead of wasting it on stupid vanity projects. Where are the Carnegie Mellons funded by the middle East? There are plenty of donor funded US research institutes by people with the name of Schwartzs and Schmidts, where are the Islamic names? I don't see any Mohammad schools of medicine, nor any Al Aqsa hospitals on the east coast while medical facilities named after Mount Sinai are everywhere. Go to California and all the engineering and science schools have buildings named after their Asian donors, often in tech. Isn't MBS's diversification efforts supposed to be tech's greatest savior through softbank's infamous Vision Fund? Where's the MBS Fellowship? Or the Bin Salman School of Engineering? They have only themselves to blame. Influence and public relations are not free.
TacticalCoder 3y ago
> It seems the author is incapable of distinguishing pro-Palestine from pro-Hamas, and equally incapable of distinguishing anti-Israel from anti-semitism. A pity from someone who is ostensibly advocating from critical thinking. I think TFA makes is very clear the author believes many at these pro-palestine rallies are actually anti-semitic people. I'll remember you the Harvard and Penn president resigned. They didn't resign because of a plagiarized Phd thesis (in Harvard's ex- president's case) or because of their condescending attitude in front of congres... They resigned because they refused to condemn calls for the genocide of jews on campuses, saying it was "contextual" whether this was allowed or not. And the issue isn't an issue of free speech vs Harvard/Penn/MIT's code of conduct: the issue is that there are anti-semitic people at these rallies chanting anti-semitic slogans. That was literally the question congress was asking: "Do you condemn the calls for the genocide of jews on campus?". "from the river to the sea" is at the very least anti-israel (but likely anti-semitic too). "gas the jews", well, leaves no much room for interpretation. There are vids out there with students, throughout the world, chanting that. How many? Which percentage of the people at these rallies are anti-semitic? Which percentage of the people at the pro-palestine rallies who didn't lift a finger to condemn the Hamas attack on october 7th are actually anti-semitic? I can condemn Israel's attack on Gaza because I was, here on HN and elsewhere, condemning the Hamas attack on october 7th. But those who didn't condemn these horrible attacks have, to me, just the right to shut the fuck up.
- handoflixue 3y ago
  > They resigned because they refused to condemn calls for the genocide of jews on campuses, saying it was "contextual" whether this was allowed or not. The author of this article explicitly refers to "Free Palestine" as a call to erase the Jewish people. So, yes, there's important context: are you trying to ban pro-Palestinian sentiment by insisting it's antisemitic, or are you trying to ban the actual phrase "genocide the Jews"? > I think TFA makes is very clear the author believes many at these pro-palestine rallies are actually anti-semitic people. The presence of some antisemitic people does not magically make the words "Free Palestine" into a call for Jewish genocide.

Onavo 3y ago

I mean what do you expect? If you ask the Native Americans two hundred years ago, or the Hawaiians a century ago, I doubt they would have anything good to say either. Ultimately when two parties claim the same piece of land and one is militarily superior, it's no wonder the other party hates their guts. I don't understand why people bend backwards trying to defend the slogan. Sure it's hate speech, but it's very justified hate speech because both parties do hate each other and want to expel their counterparts from the land they both claim. Pretending that both just secretly want to live in peace is patronizing and rob them of their agency. If they want to kill each other, let them. There's no need to appeal to moral righteousness. Yes, children and innocents are dying. Yes, the US government is picking sides. Yes, one side like to use terrorist tactics. Yes, one side likes to assassinate opponent scientists and engineers on foreign soil. Yes, the calculus of the US foreign policy does not care about morality outside of public relations. Yes, the Jewish diaspora is influential. Yes, they are being harassed by members of the other Abrahamic religion. Yes, they are being persecuted in some parts of the world. All these can be simultaneously true and still nothing will change about the situation. If the Muslim religious groups in the US truly care so much about support among US academia, perhaps they should donate more. The only reason why the Harvard presidency fiasco happened was because the board said so. If their religion and culture wasn't so insular and limit their donations to their particular in-group, then they would have a greater say in how upper class education institutions are ran. The house of Saud and the Qataris and Emirates have plenty of money. They should consider donating to the state schools instead of wasting it on stupid vanity projects. Where are the Carnegie Mellons funded by the middle East? There are plenty of donor funded US research institutes by people with the name of Schwartzs and Schmidts, where are the Islamic names? I don't see any Mohammad schools of medicine, nor any Al Aqsa hospitals on the east coast while medical facilities named after Mount Sinai are everywhere. Go to California and all the engineering and science schools have buildings named after their Asian donors, often in tech. Isn't MBS's diversification efforts supposed to be tech's greatest savior through softbank's infamous Vision Fund? Where's the MBS Fellowship? Or the Bin Salman School of Engineering? They have only themselves to blame. Influence and public relations are not free.

TacticalCoder 3y ago

> It seems the author is incapable of distinguishing pro-Palestine from pro-Hamas, and equally incapable of distinguishing anti-Israel from anti-semitism. A pity from someone who is ostensibly advocating from critical thinking. I think TFA makes is very clear the author believes many at these pro-palestine rallies are actually anti-semitic people. I'll remember you the Harvard and Penn president resigned. They didn't resign because of a plagiarized Phd thesis (in Harvard's ex- president's case) or because of their condescending attitude in front of congres... They resigned because they refused to condemn calls for the genocide of jews on campuses, saying it was "contextual" whether this was allowed or not. And the issue isn't an issue of free speech vs Harvard/Penn/MIT's code of conduct: the issue is that there are anti-semitic people at these rallies chanting anti-semitic slogans. That was literally the question congress was asking: "Do you condemn the calls for the genocide of jews on campus?". "from the river to the sea" is at the very least anti-israel (but likely anti-semitic too). "gas the jews", well, leaves no much room for interpretation. There are vids out there with students, throughout the world, chanting that. How many? Which percentage of the people at these rallies are anti-semitic? Which percentage of the people at the pro-palestine rallies who didn't lift a finger to condemn the Hamas attack on october 7th are actually anti-semitic? I can condemn Israel's attack on Gaza because I was, here on HN and elsewhere, condemning the Hamas attack on october 7th. But those who didn't condemn these horrible attacks have, to me, just the right to shut the fuck up.

handoflixue 3y ago
> They resigned because they refused to condemn calls for the genocide of jews on campuses, saying it was "contextual" whether this was allowed or not. The author of this article explicitly refers to "Free Palestine" as a call to erase the Jewish people. So, yes, there's important context: are you trying to ban pro-Palestinian sentiment by insisting it's antisemitic, or are you trying to ban the actual phrase "genocide the Jews"? > I think TFA makes is very clear the author believes many at these pro-palestine rallies are actually anti-semitic people. The presence of some antisemitic people does not magically make the words "Free Palestine" into a call for Jewish genocide.