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The big RSU grant is depleted and you don’t get a new one that is comparable in size. There is zero reason not to leave in this case, because you will absolutel

The big RSU grant is depleted and you don’t get a new one that is comparable in size. There is zero reason not to leave in this case, because you will absolutely make way more money by leaving. You can even leave and rejoin the same company to get another grant, as dumb as that is. Make sure you actually ask for a new grant before quitting, nobody is going to give you money for free. You also need to be good but that’s a given if you’ve been around for 3-4 years (however your RSU vesting works)

tschwimmer 3y ago
You will have to re-interview to get a new grant, and even for a strong performer with a well-established historical track record at the company can be a very probabilistic event.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
hibikir 3y ago
Smaller refreshes than the original grant are a clear message from management that they don't necessarily want you around, but you aren't underperforming so much as to want to bother with the hassle of a Pip. In any place that isn't massively dysfunctional, a manager can hand out large enough refreshes to the people they want to keep in the long run.
dilyevsky 3y ago
> because you will absolutely make way more money by leaving That is a pre-2023 advice my friend, unless you’ve been there like 10yrs or an ai researcher or something
- corytheboyd 3y ago
  Well you’re right in that I haven’t been looking for jobs recently, but I find it extremely hard to believe that large grants and salaries are no longer a thing in the software industry at large. A few friends-of-friends I know very recently got nice grants and salaries, with large Mega Corps, but that’s always where the money was?
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    Everyone on HN knows someone's brother's nephew's wife's cousin's former roommate who makes $600K at MegaCorp FAANG but those kinds of opportunities aren't (and have never been) common. Especially now during our first tech bear market in what, 13 years?
    - corytheboyd 3y ago
      Yeah good point, and 13 years is more or less the length of my career so it’s all I’ve known (feel like I will regret saying that I haven’t been programming for 192 years on HN but oh well) At the same time, it’s 13 years of data backing up the claim, though they probably said the same thing before the dotcom bubble exploded, didn’t they, weee
    - mlhpdx 3y ago
      What’s the unemployment rate for software developers? Still basically zero. It’s never moved, but for some reason people seem to think it has. That’s weird.
      - closeparen 3y ago
        WSJ reported a few days ago that IT job growth is down year-over-year from 279,000 to 700. It's not contraction yet, but it is effectively the end of a long run of rapid growth. https://www.wsj.com/articles/it-employment-grew-by-just-700-jobs-in-2023-down-from-267-000-in-2022-adbd8a61 https://www.wsj.com/articles/it-employment-grew-by-just-700-...
        mlhpdx 3y ago
        Yes, the number of unfilled tech positions has stopped growing but the absolute number is still in the hundreds of thousands in the US alone. There is no shortage of jobs. Maybe there will be, but there isn’t and hasn’t been. Edited: typo “IS” to “US”.
      - dilyevsky 3y ago
        You will find work but a lot of those jobs got pushed downmarket, to early stage firms, as late stage and public companies are short of cash now. And those early stage companies dont pay you as much or at least not in cash
- ryandrake 3y ago
  It's pre-2023 thinking and early-career thinking. Without job title growth, eventually everyone plateaus. There's only so much any company is willing to pay a non-manager individual contributor worker bee. Early in your career you can go from say $45K to $60K to $100K like it's nothing, but the more you job hop, it'll start looking more like $110K -> $120K -> $125K -> $128K and so on, asymptotically approaching your locale's top pay for your role.
  - closeparen 3y ago
    Note: the national median for software developers is $127k, don't let anyone sell you that as some kind of career ceiling. Especially if you live in New York, Seattle, or the Bay Area. https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm#st https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm#st
    - ska 3y ago
      You're both right - you point out the absolute values achievable are a bit higher, but parent is pointing out that early career jumps are typically faster than later career ones (for good reason). So maybe it's 160k (or whatever) not 128k but the argument stands. Asymptoting to some sort of local-to-you maximum is how most peoples career arc will go. At some point there are no more big jumps to be made unless you wildly change what you are doing, and many folks will be ok with that, you continue making good money (globally speaking) for the longer run, but your days of doubling salary are done.
      - ryandrake 3y ago
        Yes it's always a risk on HN to post example numbers because people fixate on the values of them and miss the gist of the comment. I'm not saying that $128K is the magic number but that for every job title, in every area, in every industry, there absolutely is a number, and your late-career compensation is likely to flatline approaching it.
    - klardotsh 3y ago
      Yeah, at this point $127k for a SDE in Seattle MSA is... high-junior through low/mid-mid level salary. A senior title in Seattle MSA should easily be clearing $160k base cash. Maybe drop those numbers slightly in the startup scene, particularly very-early-stage, but honestly, post-2021 salaries need to match post-2021 COL, which skyrocketed already-bad numbers (I remember laughing at Zillow listings here in 2017, even) well into the stratosphere. I do think the asymptotic curve analogy still holds despite the numbers being higher in these areas (in vast majority part, IMO, because of housing purchase costs out here (or landlord greed, whichever you want to attribute to)). The jump from senior to staff bands, especially in take-home/post-tax dollars, is way, way less than the jump from mid-senior bands.
- granshaw 3y ago
  Absolutely. Total comp, not to mention hiring in general at publicly traded tech firms has dropped significantly since the “software recession” and mass layoffs. The current good times for employees are mainly in the economy outside of tech
ryandrake 3y ago
Yea, I just recently fell off my four-year "cliff" at my company and it's humbling to see your total comp suddenly reset back three or four years. This is often a very good discontinuity that justifies looking around, and it's no surprise that people tend to leave close to their whole number anniversaries.
- corytheboyd 3y ago
  Humbling is an interesting way to put it haha! I wish you luck. As nice as it is to know that there are greener pastures, the idea of interviewing amidst the great tech layoffs of today scares the shit out of me.
mynameisnoone 3y ago
They're treating you like an idiot who can't count, and so the proper response is given them the middle finger by moving on. You owe them nothing. Most MAANGs will match RSUs so you rarely must stay somewhere miserable just to vest. If it's not a fun place to work, it's not worth wasting your (work)life.
Thaxll 3y ago
Not everyone is in for the money.

tschwimmer 3y ago

You will have to re-interview to get a new grant, and even for a strong performer with a well-established historical track record at the company can be a very probabilistic event.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

hibikir 3y ago

Smaller refreshes than the original grant are a clear message from management that they don't necessarily want you around, but you aren't underperforming so much as to want to bother with the hassle of a Pip. In any place that isn't massively dysfunctional, a manager can hand out large enough refreshes to the people they want to keep in the long run.

dilyevsky 3y ago

> because you will absolutely make way more money by leaving That is a pre-2023 advice my friend, unless you’ve been there like 10yrs or an ai researcher or something

corytheboyd 3y ago
Well you’re right in that I haven’t been looking for jobs recently, but I find it extremely hard to believe that large grants and salaries are no longer a thing in the software industry at large. A few friends-of-friends I know very recently got nice grants and salaries, with large Mega Corps, but that’s always where the money was?
- ryandrake 3y ago
  Everyone on HN knows someone's brother's nephew's wife's cousin's former roommate who makes $600K at MegaCorp FAANG but those kinds of opportunities aren't (and have never been) common. Especially now during our first tech bear market in what, 13 years?
  - corytheboyd 3y ago
    Yeah good point, and 13 years is more or less the length of my career so it’s all I’ve known (feel like I will regret saying that I haven’t been programming for 192 years on HN but oh well) At the same time, it’s 13 years of data backing up the claim, though they probably said the same thing before the dotcom bubble exploded, didn’t they, weee
  - mlhpdx 3y ago
    What’s the unemployment rate for software developers? Still basically zero. It’s never moved, but for some reason people seem to think it has. That’s weird.
    - closeparen 3y ago
      WSJ reported a few days ago that IT job growth is down year-over-year from 279,000 to 700. It's not contraction yet, but it is effectively the end of a long run of rapid growth. https://www.wsj.com/articles/it-employment-grew-by-just-700-jobs-in-2023-down-from-267-000-in-2022-adbd8a61 https://www.wsj.com/articles/it-employment-grew-by-just-700-...
      - mlhpdx 3y ago
        Yes, the number of unfilled tech positions has stopped growing but the absolute number is still in the hundreds of thousands in the US alone. There is no shortage of jobs. Maybe there will be, but there isn’t and hasn’t been. Edited: typo “IS” to “US”.
    - dilyevsky 3y ago
      You will find work but a lot of those jobs got pushed downmarket, to early stage firms, as late stage and public companies are short of cash now. And those early stage companies dont pay you as much or at least not in cash
ryandrake 3y ago
It's pre-2023 thinking and early-career thinking. Without job title growth, eventually everyone plateaus. There's only so much any company is willing to pay a non-manager individual contributor worker bee. Early in your career you can go from say $45K to $60K to $100K like it's nothing, but the more you job hop, it'll start looking more like $110K -> $120K -> $125K -> $128K and so on, asymptotically approaching your locale's top pay for your role.
- closeparen 3y ago
  Note: the national median for software developers is $127k, don't let anyone sell you that as some kind of career ceiling. Especially if you live in New York, Seattle, or the Bay Area. https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm#st https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm#st
  - ska 3y ago
    You're both right - you point out the absolute values achievable are a bit higher, but parent is pointing out that early career jumps are typically faster than later career ones (for good reason). So maybe it's 160k (or whatever) not 128k but the argument stands. Asymptoting to some sort of local-to-you maximum is how most peoples career arc will go. At some point there are no more big jumps to be made unless you wildly change what you are doing, and many folks will be ok with that, you continue making good money (globally speaking) for the longer run, but your days of doubling salary are done.
    - ryandrake 3y ago
      Yes it's always a risk on HN to post example numbers because people fixate on the values of them and miss the gist of the comment. I'm not saying that $128K is the magic number but that for every job title, in every area, in every industry, there absolutely is a number, and your late-career compensation is likely to flatline approaching it.
  - klardotsh 3y ago
    Yeah, at this point $127k for a SDE in Seattle MSA is... high-junior through low/mid-mid level salary. A senior title in Seattle MSA should easily be clearing $160k base cash. Maybe drop those numbers slightly in the startup scene, particularly very-early-stage, but honestly, post-2021 salaries need to match post-2021 COL, which skyrocketed already-bad numbers (I remember laughing at Zillow listings here in 2017, even) well into the stratosphere. I do think the asymptotic curve analogy still holds despite the numbers being higher in these areas (in vast majority part, IMO, because of housing purchase costs out here (or landlord greed, whichever you want to attribute to)). The jump from senior to staff bands, especially in take-home/post-tax dollars, is way, way less than the jump from mid-senior bands.
granshaw 3y ago
Absolutely. Total comp, not to mention hiring in general at publicly traded tech firms has dropped significantly since the “software recession” and mass layoffs. The current good times for employees are mainly in the economy outside of tech

ryandrake 3y ago

Yea, I just recently fell off my four-year "cliff" at my company and it's humbling to see your total comp suddenly reset back three or four years. This is often a very good discontinuity that justifies looking around, and it's no surprise that people tend to leave close to their whole number anniversaries.

corytheboyd 3y ago
Humbling is an interesting way to put it haha! I wish you luck. As nice as it is to know that there are greener pastures, the idea of interviewing amidst the great tech layoffs of today scares the shit out of me.

mynameisnoone 3y ago

They're treating you like an idiot who can't count, and so the proper response is given them the middle finger by moving on. You owe them nothing. Most MAANGs will match RSUs so you rarely must stay somewhere miserable just to vest. If it's not a fun place to work, it's not worth wasting your (work)life.

Thaxll 3y ago

Not everyone is in for the money.