8 ms·

The death of crypto was written endlessly on HN. The investor activity is much more bullish over last 6 months. I think the only hot VC right now in all of tech

The death of crypto was written endlessly on HN. The investor activity is much more bullish over last 6 months. I think the only hot VC right now in all of tech is AI and blockchain. Now a lot of people here will be investing in Bitcoin without even knowing it, as their passive fund investments begin accumulating. The sweet victory against the no coiners.

ESTheComposer 3y ago
People in HN are in a massive bubble; you see it with other topics too. It's nice to look here for some tech sentiment and interesting article sometimes, but for most cutting edge stuff this forum is always full of naysayers.
- pixelpoet 3y ago
  I've learnt not to talk about crypto or computer graphics (?!) here, so much vitriol.
  - codetrotter 3y ago
    > computer graphics That’s a shame :( computer graphics is a very interesting topic and I always love to read things about it
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- miohtama 3y ago
  A lot of people in software industry have tendency to reflexive negativity*, as people selected to become software developer often have a tendency to seeing things in their own limited scope, and not the in the scope of others. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/reflexive-negativity-jess-maccallum/ https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/reflexive-negativity-jess-mac...
- rvz 3y ago
  Well, HN is so deep in their own reality distortion bubble that they are still not noticing that "AGI" is actually about lining some-else's pockets over a sci-fi dream sold to them through hype after trampling over laws and regulations. Those on HN who believed that such a complete ban on crypto was feasible were always delusional. The cat is out of the bag for both AI and crypto, but in the end, the legal system always gets them to pay up and the regulators for both AI or crypto will get them as well. No escaping that.
- dgreensp 3y ago
  People who aren’t in the tech/VC or crypto echo chambers can see that it’s (still) overhyped and mostly scams. They don’t really care or have more positive sentiment than HN.
  - ESTheComposer 3y ago
    Ok and from my anecdotal experience the opposite is true, so I guess we're at a crossroads here. Either way doesn't have bearing on how HN views crypto
    - dgreensp 3y ago
      Well the claim is that if HN isn’t bullish on crypto in 2024 it must be inside a strange “negativity bubble.”
      - ESTheComposer 3y ago
        There's a difference between being bearish and being fully anti crypto and just spreading conjecture. Being bearish is very normal, being rabidly anti crypto on every crypto thread on HN like a couple folks who are in this very thread is being in a bubble.
        smoldesu 3y ago
        Some people are just like that. The same thing happens on the other side of the fence alarmingly often, where someone will claim Bitcoin is the second coming of Christ and sell their home before knowing basic technical details about the network. Or people who fully understand the system, and deliberately lie about a coin's functionality for petty gain. On either side there are people promoting altruistic regulation and acceleration, but at a larger scale we're mostly describing greedy businesses (on either side) and... put politely, "government dissidents". So, as is the case with any meaningful investment, you have to ask "cui bono?" with cryptocurrency. Very plainly, you're risking normal money on a venture that doesn't promote anything other than greed and black market transactions. The hackers on this site will oppose it in favor of information freedom and a less money-influenced internet, and the greedy bastards will oppose it because they'd prefer one party owns everything from the start. It's a nuanced situation with lots of different people, good-faith or not, who will oppose or support cryptocurrency for the wrong or right reasons. It's straightforward and non-predatory to say that most people are better off keeping their pay-stub out of the alternative currency market.
- npoc 3y ago
  There's a fair amount of ill-placed arrogance. It seems that the majority on this board confidently and incorrectly believe that they know all there really is to know about bitcoin. Essentially that it's a scam that wastes energy. If you try to help them understand, you're generally attacked as if you are shill, and then they continue along in their ignorant bubble. It's a shame, but their attitude isn't conducive to me losing any sleep. You buy bitcoin at the price you deserve.
  - moose_man 3y ago
    It's not arrogance and not just that it is scammy or wasteful to the environment. Bitcoin is another mechanism the increases inequality. I think Bitcoin is one of the many way that the economy is rigged against economically insecure retail investors. The more money that gets funneled from the middle class into Michael Saylor and crew's pocket the closer it brings us to civil war. Checkout End Times: Elites, Counter-Elites, and the Path of Political Disintegration by Peter Turchin https://www.amazon.com/End-Times-Counter-Elites-Political-Disintegration/dp/0593490509 https://www.amazon.com/End-Times-Counter-Elites-Political-Di...
    - npoc 3y ago
      Ironically this is exactly what bitcoin fixes. Fiat currency is the main cause of these issues (look up the Cantillon effect as an example). It's a cancer on the world, slowly destroying it. I highly recommend reading "The Creature from Jekyll Island" which explains everything that's wrong with central banking/fiat currencies and will help you understand the devastating effect it is having on the world. Sure, there is a transfer of wealth while bitcoin is monetizing. But you buy bitcoin at the price you deserve. Michael Saylor deserves everything he's going to get. He's a visionary with balls of steel - he's laid it all on the line. If you try to avoid making bitcoin whales richer by not buying bitcoin, you'll simply be cutting off your nose to spite your face.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    Bitcoin itself is a scam that wastes energy. Without custodial ownership, scam transactions are resolved no different than legitimate ones. Without diligent regulation, Bitcoin's power usage can easily balloon beyond what any single institution would consider appropriate. Both of those things are demonstrably true, and providing Bitcoin ETFs via regulated exchanges changes neither one.
- democracy 3y ago
  First of all there never was anything "cutting edge". It was a nice prototype of p2p application for large and slow decentralized payments - a very niche thing for very niche audience with a questionable mechanism in the form of Proof-of-work. But at least the argument of "unregulated currency" made sense to regular folk. The get-rich-quick hype that followed killed any reason or logic in this area. The following NFTs was a joke even to those who believed in the "next currency" idea. The following ideas of pyramids that mint you money while you stake your coins (I think) got even the most gullible ones reject it )))
RandomLensman 3y ago
Why would it be in passive funds or do mean it will become part of the asset allocation of pension funds and the like?
- moose_man 3y ago
  Yeah, crypto people want to recreate the current system but with themselves in charge. It's not about decentralization. They want to carbon copy the current economy but putting a small number of holders to lord over the "nocominers"
rurp 3y ago
So "winning" for Bitcoin has now come to mean becoming a boring traditional security that doesn't do much of anything else? That's awfully different from what 99.9% of Bitcoin optimists have spent years claiming the future would be. Authorizing Bitcoin ETFs does absolutely nothing to revolutionize payments or finance, and is the only positive crypto story I have seen in many months.
- monero-xmr 3y ago
  You can’t win with HN no coiners. The ETF doesn’t prevent all the decentralized benefits. It just adds regulatory legitimacy from the world’s most important financial regulator. It also helps regular people put their retirement money in, which is great
  - iamthirsty 3y ago
    > The ETF doesn’t prevent all the decentralized benefits. OP's point wasn't about preventing decentralized benefits, I believe they were saying the ETFs don't help them in any way.
SilverBirch 3y ago
A Bitcoin ETF is literally the antithesis of the crypto project. It’s a centralised, highly regulated trad-fi product. Also, no one is going to end up accidentally investing in crypto, these ETFs are going to be super niche products.
- koolba 3y ago
  It’s also the only way for most to get crypto exposure in an IRA. Avoiding the insanity that is crypto tax filings may be worth the risks and fees.
  - Alupis 3y ago
    I think this is the huge part - letting retirement accounts dabble in crypto. For those young enough (or foolish enough) to operate a high-risk/high-growth retirement portfolio, holding crypto can be a large boon. Just the past 365 days of BTC has 162% increase in value.
  - wmf 3y ago
    Buying and holding crypto isn't that complex for tax purposes (although it could still be easier). The craziness comes in when people get into DeFi but ETFs don't let you do that anyway.
- miohtama 3y ago
  Not by accidentally, but many index funds will, and then people will indirectly through their pensions. Most of funds by AUM are now passive index funds.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
TrackerFF 3y ago
Funds have guidelines to follow. For the very same reason that (for example) pension or union fund managers can't just allocated x% of their portfolio to blackjack or rolling the dice. Crypto is still INCREDIBLY high volatility and high risk. Crypto is also a pretty shitty instrument with regard to hedging, as they all follow the same movement. Mitigating risk in crypto is very much a hands-on job.
Gazoche 3y ago
> The sweet victory against the no coiners. This fight only exists in your head.

ESTheComposer 3y ago

People in HN are in a massive bubble; you see it with other topics too. It's nice to look here for some tech sentiment and interesting article sometimes, but for most cutting edge stuff this forum is always full of naysayers.

pixelpoet 3y ago
I've learnt not to talk about crypto or computer graphics (?!) here, so much vitriol.
- codetrotter 3y ago
  > computer graphics That’s a shame :( computer graphics is a very interesting topic and I always love to read things about it
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
miohtama 3y ago
A lot of people in software industry have tendency to reflexive negativity*, as people selected to become software developer often have a tendency to seeing things in their own limited scope, and not the in the scope of others. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/reflexive-negativity-jess-maccallum/ https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/reflexive-negativity-jess-mac...
rvz 3y ago
Well, HN is so deep in their own reality distortion bubble that they are still not noticing that "AGI" is actually about lining some-else's pockets over a sci-fi dream sold to them through hype after trampling over laws and regulations. Those on HN who believed that such a complete ban on crypto was feasible were always delusional. The cat is out of the bag for both AI and crypto, but in the end, the legal system always gets them to pay up and the regulators for both AI or crypto will get them as well. No escaping that.
dgreensp 3y ago
People who aren’t in the tech/VC or crypto echo chambers can see that it’s (still) overhyped and mostly scams. They don’t really care or have more positive sentiment than HN.
- ESTheComposer 3y ago
  Ok and from my anecdotal experience the opposite is true, so I guess we're at a crossroads here. Either way doesn't have bearing on how HN views crypto
  - dgreensp 3y ago
    Well the claim is that if HN isn’t bullish on crypto in 2024 it must be inside a strange “negativity bubble.”
    - ESTheComposer 3y ago
      There's a difference between being bearish and being fully anti crypto and just spreading conjecture. Being bearish is very normal, being rabidly anti crypto on every crypto thread on HN like a couple folks who are in this very thread is being in a bubble.
      - smoldesu 3y ago
        Some people are just like that. The same thing happens on the other side of the fence alarmingly often, where someone will claim Bitcoin is the second coming of Christ and sell their home before knowing basic technical details about the network. Or people who fully understand the system, and deliberately lie about a coin's functionality for petty gain. On either side there are people promoting altruistic regulation and acceleration, but at a larger scale we're mostly describing greedy businesses (on either side) and... put politely, "government dissidents". So, as is the case with any meaningful investment, you have to ask "cui bono?" with cryptocurrency. Very plainly, you're risking normal money on a venture that doesn't promote anything other than greed and black market transactions. The hackers on this site will oppose it in favor of information freedom and a less money-influenced internet, and the greedy bastards will oppose it because they'd prefer one party owns everything from the start. It's a nuanced situation with lots of different people, good-faith or not, who will oppose or support cryptocurrency for the wrong or right reasons. It's straightforward and non-predatory to say that most people are better off keeping their pay-stub out of the alternative currency market.
npoc 3y ago
There's a fair amount of ill-placed arrogance. It seems that the majority on this board confidently and incorrectly believe that they know all there really is to know about bitcoin. Essentially that it's a scam that wastes energy. If you try to help them understand, you're generally attacked as if you are shill, and then they continue along in their ignorant bubble. It's a shame, but their attitude isn't conducive to me losing any sleep. You buy bitcoin at the price you deserve.
- moose_man 3y ago
  It's not arrogance and not just that it is scammy or wasteful to the environment. Bitcoin is another mechanism the increases inequality. I think Bitcoin is one of the many way that the economy is rigged against economically insecure retail investors. The more money that gets funneled from the middle class into Michael Saylor and crew's pocket the closer it brings us to civil war. Checkout End Times: Elites, Counter-Elites, and the Path of Political Disintegration by Peter Turchin https://www.amazon.com/End-Times-Counter-Elites-Political-Disintegration/dp/0593490509 https://www.amazon.com/End-Times-Counter-Elites-Political-Di...
  - npoc 3y ago
    Ironically this is exactly what bitcoin fixes. Fiat currency is the main cause of these issues (look up the Cantillon effect as an example). It's a cancer on the world, slowly destroying it. I highly recommend reading "The Creature from Jekyll Island" which explains everything that's wrong with central banking/fiat currencies and will help you understand the devastating effect it is having on the world. Sure, there is a transfer of wealth while bitcoin is monetizing. But you buy bitcoin at the price you deserve. Michael Saylor deserves everything he's going to get. He's a visionary with balls of steel - he's laid it all on the line. If you try to avoid making bitcoin whales richer by not buying bitcoin, you'll simply be cutting off your nose to spite your face.
- smoldesu 3y ago
  Bitcoin itself is a scam that wastes energy. Without custodial ownership, scam transactions are resolved no different than legitimate ones. Without diligent regulation, Bitcoin's power usage can easily balloon beyond what any single institution would consider appropriate. Both of those things are demonstrably true, and providing Bitcoin ETFs via regulated exchanges changes neither one.
democracy 3y ago
First of all there never was anything "cutting edge". It was a nice prototype of p2p application for large and slow decentralized payments - a very niche thing for very niche audience with a questionable mechanism in the form of Proof-of-work. But at least the argument of "unregulated currency" made sense to regular folk. The get-rich-quick hype that followed killed any reason or logic in this area. The following NFTs was a joke even to those who believed in the "next currency" idea. The following ideas of pyramids that mint you money while you stake your coins (I think) got even the most gullible ones reject it )))

RandomLensman 3y ago

Why would it be in passive funds or do mean it will become part of the asset allocation of pension funds and the like?

moose_man 3y ago
Yeah, crypto people want to recreate the current system but with themselves in charge. It's not about decentralization. They want to carbon copy the current economy but putting a small number of holders to lord over the "nocominers"

rurp 3y ago

So "winning" for Bitcoin has now come to mean becoming a boring traditional security that doesn't do much of anything else? That's awfully different from what 99.9% of Bitcoin optimists have spent years claiming the future would be. Authorizing Bitcoin ETFs does absolutely nothing to revolutionize payments or finance, and is the only positive crypto story I have seen in many months.

monero-xmr 3y ago
You can’t win with HN no coiners. The ETF doesn’t prevent all the decentralized benefits. It just adds regulatory legitimacy from the world’s most important financial regulator. It also helps regular people put their retirement money in, which is great
- iamthirsty 3y ago
  > The ETF doesn’t prevent all the decentralized benefits. OP's point wasn't about preventing decentralized benefits, I believe they were saying the ETFs don't help them in any way.

SilverBirch 3y ago

A Bitcoin ETF is literally the antithesis of the crypto project. It’s a centralised, highly regulated trad-fi product. Also, no one is going to end up accidentally investing in crypto, these ETFs are going to be super niche products.

koolba 3y ago
It’s also the only way for most to get crypto exposure in an IRA. Avoiding the insanity that is crypto tax filings may be worth the risks and fees.
- Alupis 3y ago
  I think this is the huge part - letting retirement accounts dabble in crypto. For those young enough (or foolish enough) to operate a high-risk/high-growth retirement portfolio, holding crypto can be a large boon. Just the past 365 days of BTC has 162% increase in value.
- wmf 3y ago
  Buying and holding crypto isn't that complex for tax purposes (although it could still be easier). The craziness comes in when people get into DeFi but ETFs don't let you do that anyway.
miohtama 3y ago
Not by accidentally, but many index funds will, and then people will indirectly through their pensions. Most of funds by AUM are now passive index funds.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

TrackerFF 3y ago

Funds have guidelines to follow. For the very same reason that (for example) pension or union fund managers can't just allocated x% of their portfolio to blackjack or rolling the dice. Crypto is still INCREDIBLY high volatility and high risk. Crypto is also a pretty shitty instrument with regard to hedging, as they all follow the same movement. Mitigating risk in crypto is very much a hands-on job.

Gazoche 3y ago

> The sweet victory against the no coiners. This fight only exists in your head.