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in Reed's "No Rules Rules" book, they discuss how this contest was really a way to recruit top-quality engineering talent, which is a key assumption in how they

• shermantanktop 3y ago
  Everything that Netflix says or does externally wrt to tech appears to be for this purpose, including open-sourcing some things. It is all catnip for the HN crowd to come work for them.
  • mrguyorama 3y ago
    Netflix pays in the same ballpark as other FAANG companies but the product is so much clearer (stream people movies and shows, maybe recommend them something to watch) and the complete lack of grey ethics like in AdTech or a Monopoly like Microsoft is the real catnip.
    • cybrox 3y ago
      They use a lot of the same concepts as AdTech but only for their own content without shilling for everyone who is willing to pay.
      • Cyphase 3y ago
        I think that context makes a reasonable difference for some people. (The following is a tangent.) To put it another way, using a slightly different kind of situation, I don't want BigCorp's AI watching everything I do to "serve me better", but I'm very interested in the idea of a local AI that watches everything I do and helps me be N times more efficient, while I maintain full control. I don't care if the local AI uses the same data-gathering, data analysis, etc. concepts as BigCorp's AI to accomplish the goals I want it to accomplish. Caveats include: - The local AI is Skinner-boxing you or similar. This isn't about the AI having conscious malicious intent; it could be a design defect. Also, a local, offline, open source video game can still be addictive. - The risk of the system being compromised / manipulated, and all that data on you being exfiltrated.
    • ketzo 3y ago
      I think it’s worth noting that actually, they pay the most of the FAANG companies, and they pay all cash, no RSUs. They also have some extremely generous benefits - one that comes to mind is 6mo fully-paid parental leave. Netflix compensation is fucking bonkers.
    • ipaddr 3y ago
      Many things have come out describing it as toxic culture on hackernews. New employees last less than a year.
      • diab0lic 3y ago
        The HN take is highly sensationalized. It’s a great place to work with fantastic work / life balance, great pay, and friendly coworkers. I was there for nearly a decade and would never describe it as toxic.
        • ipaddr 3y ago
          If you have been there for 10 years you might be part of the culture problem.
          • shermantanktop 3y ago
            Really? Do you always endorse the external perception/criticism of places you have worked for a while? I know I don’t, having worked at places where I barely recognized the company from the ridiculous things people said about it on the internet. Or maybe I’m the problem, wherever I go.
      • paulcole 3y ago
        > New employees last less than a year Isn’t this ideal? Find out if it’s for you quickly? And if it’s not move on to something that you actually will like doing?
        • ipaddr 3y ago
          Not for new employees. If you knew you were going to be let go 9 months later I'd rather take a different offer.
          • paulcole 3y ago
            But you don’t know that lol. If you knew you were going to stay there 9 years and make a tractor trailer load of money and love the culture you’d take the offer. If you’re not sure which is more likely and you really like the maximum upside then you should take the offer and get out in 9 months if it’s not for you.
  • lulznews 3y ago
    Which is odd given their app is highly trivial.
    • jamesrr39 3y ago
      Hmm. I can't think of any time I've thought the app was really missing something, or didn't work. In fact, I always thought the app was pretty smooth and "just worked". By comparison, several years ago, I was regularly streaming Netflix content without any trouble. One day I streamed a show on the HBO app on mobile data and it ate up almost all of my month's data usage. I guess it's behind the scenes work, and not so exciting, to e.g. stream a smaller resolution for a mobile phone, but in moments like that you realise there are a substantial amount of things to think about when making such an app.
      • amaranth 3y ago
        If you live in the US there is a good chance that was your phone company throttling Netflix and the app automatically switching to 480p to adjust to the reduced bandwidth. They probably do that more broadly now but when they first started it was only Netflix.
        • jamesrr39 3y ago
          I don't live in the US, but how would this work? Isn't the video sent over SSL? In that case how would the phone company know what to send back? I just assumed that Netflix had different video formats on its' servers, ready to go, and when the app requested the video it also sent the screen size/resolution to get the smallest file size, that would also look good on my phone. If that was 480p then all well and good, it was fine to watch. It was a while ago now, but IIRC the amount HBO used was pretty horrendous, like a GB for 30 mins or so of video, so I guess they just downloaded a big file and let the player on the phone handle that. Like a say, a few years ago now so the situation may well be better with HBO now.
    • seanp2k2 3y ago
      Building one of the largest CDNs on the planet is trivial? https://openconnect.netflix.com/Open-Connect-Overview.pdf https://openconnect.netflix.com/Open-Connect-Overview.pdf Changing the way Hollywood and content licensing works is trivial? https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lifestyle/arts/how-netflix-conquered-hollywood-broke-it-pandoras-box-book-excerpt-1235637957/ https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lifestyle/arts/how-netflix... Yeah, it's not rocket science to build a streaming service using AWS or GCloud lego blocks in 2024, but remember that Netflix started streaming in 2007.
  • deleted 3y ago
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• rabuse 3y ago
  All the top talent they've acquired and money spent still can't save them from their complete garbage lineup of content they push out, all while limiting account access and raising prices.
  • xeromal 3y ago
    People can call it garbage all they want. Their raised prices resulting in more revenue for them
  • Uptrenda 3y ago
    I kind of agree with you. I feel like there's a narrow set of content there worth watching and when you get through it all it's just like: okay, now what? There's nothing else worth watching. I haven't been able to use my netflix account for months now. I just go to youtube now and subscribe to channels I like. Seems much more interesting than netflix. Currently following some interesting permaculture projects. I find the type of work these people do so useful and clever really.
  • cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
    Netflix obviously since enjoyed a period of success. You may need to reconcile that with your overly negative portrayal of the situation which honestly seems more about your personal feelings about Netflix rather than more objective measures of success.
  • kredd 3y ago
    You call it garbage content, but every other person is somehow watching them. I’m probably not their target audience, but looking at my friend circles, those shows are definitely being consumed.
    • FalconSensei 3y ago
      Not only being watched, but most desired. Like, people threatened to cancel netflix if they implemented password sharing but inevery country they implemented it, they actually grew on subscriber numbers..
  • 3y ago
• lr1970 3y ago
  A little secret is that the content rights holders negotiated draconian streaming contracts that are outright prohibitive to Netflix. Netflix is trying to do everything possible to hide the fact that their streaming library is small and shrinking. In the old hey-day of Netflix mail-in red envelopes with DVDs you were hard pressed to find a movie they did not have. These days your search returns mostly crap.
  • Wowfunhappy 3y ago
    This is why I'm still surprised they separated out (and eventually killed) their disc-by-mail service. I understand the visceral feeling that discs are an antiquated relic—but you just can't beat that catalog. Combining discs and streaming in one subscription provides customers with the best of both worlds. Need something to watch right now? No problem, we have an excellent streaming catalog and you're going to love Stranger Things! Want a specific movie or show, maybe Friends or The Lion King? We've got that too, it'll be in your mailbox in a couple days. And if some customers choose to forgo either the digital or physical side of the package, it doesn't cost Netflix anything.
    • munificent 3y ago
      I'm sure they just ran the numbers and realized that being both a data streaming software company and a physical package logistics company just didn't add up. Every dollar they spent on the latter would have net them more profit if they instead invested it in the former.
      • Wowfunhappy 3y ago
        Maybe--I of course don't have their numbers--but remember that Netflix kept offering discs up until last year, just under a separate subscription. So they were still investing some money. I think Netflix got cocky. When Netflix separated the plans, streaming rights were cheap and Netflix's streaming catalog was growing quickly. They didn't foresee the market becoming so competitive. Continuing to offer discs would have allowed Netflix to hedge their bets and avoid relying on rights-holders. The original content push did that too, but at a much higher cost. If keeping DVDs meant Netflix could produce a few less original shows per year, that seems worth the trade.
• j2kun 3y ago
  Wait, so they knew _in advance_ that they weren't going to use the result? Before they even started the competition? Or is this ret-conning once they decided not to use it. I feel like I can't really trust Reed's word on it, since he has a very strong incentive to paint himself as a mastermind.
  • motoxpro 3y ago
    In these kind of competitions (e.g. Kaggle), the algos never really get used because they are too complex/optimized to implement into production (i.e. 3 layers of 10 ensembled XGB + 1000 highly engineered features + etc, etc). Mainly they are used for recruiting, new ideas (simpler versions get implemented), and proof of concept (if we did this really really well, what would it look like, should we spend 2 engineering years on it?)
• consumer451 3y ago
  I got a bit sad and embarrassed when I realized that in terms of SpaceX, that's what the hyperloop pod competition was all about, oh so long ago. I was just an outsider, but I guess at least I learned about passive levitation.
• iamleppert 3y ago
  So the entire premise by which they were “recruiting” was dishonest? No one sees any problems with lying to people? Dishonesty has apparently become the norm, not the exception. Honestly and trust is a bedrock principle of society. It’s no wonder our society is in the state that it’s in today. You really cannot trust anything anyone says, especially large companies. They basically always lie and manipulate and are at a constant advantage to those of us who find dishonesty morally wrong.
  • furyofantares 3y ago
    Eh, I don't think anyone participated because they just really wanted Netflix to have a better recommendation system. Teams put serious effort into it for the million dollar prize, which wasn't a lie. And hackers and tinkerers enjoyed the novelty of the challenge and the cool dataset to work with, also not a lie. I don't think they ever said they would use it necessarily either? I feel like it was obvious that it wasn't going to capture all of their actual requirements - your algorithm could be slow or expensive or difficult to adapt to new requirements or difficult to adapt to new data etc etc.