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A spiritual void, a loss of social cohesion, isolation, alienation, a loss of a culture that reinforces ways of life that enable flourishing, radical individual

A spiritual void, a loss of social cohesion, isolation, alienation, a loss of a culture that reinforces ways of life that enable flourishing, radical individualism. The decline of traditional religious faith in the West. The sexual revolution and its dreadful distortion of human sexuality. The culture of consumerism and the worship of desire and appetite divorced from reason and one's objective good. So what's a smell that suggests this is the case? According to the triple melting pot theory, in countries like the US, ethnic identity, under the tendency toward some kind of assimilation, gives way to religious identity as not only religious identity, but a substitute for ethnic identity. So what happens with the waning of religious identity? Various dehumanizing ideologies start to look attractive. This explains both the appeal of the sexual, racial, and ecological ideologies that have become popular recently. These ideologies promise identity and social belonging, perhaps even an alleged higher purpose, which is to say they offer false and flimsy identities, ones that have political utility for those who control them. Various subcultures, many created by corporate interest around various products, do the same thing. You have "communities", so-called, that center around owning a particular brand of something. Corporate brand constructed false identities. People don't know who they are. They've alone. They don't know the address of the destination, or even that there is an address. Their horizon goes only as far as satisfying their base appetites, and they pay lip service to ideologies to avoid being shunned from groups without which they cannot satisfy those appetites. And when they do, they discover that their satisfaction isn't all that it is cracked up to be. Here follows the realization that no hope is to be found in what has been sought. From here: suicide, or some higher realization.

pixl97 3y ago
So, to piss off as many religious people as possible.... A couple of goat herder psychologist a couple of millennia ago figured out if you told people they had a purpose things in general worked better. The particular problem is they made up a whole bunch of shit and when the sciences in general came around, people when "wow, religion is a bunch of controlling bullshit". Now, I will say that religion is only mostly a bunch of controlling bullshit, but they did understand people and that is why these religions had staying power that lasted thousands of years in some cases. As we came into the modern age we cast the religion away, but we did forget many of the important lessons on society building it had taught us. In the meantime psychology rapidly expanded, and it was used by both governments and corporations to control individuals with very little of that knowledge being broadly taught to society at large so they could inoculate themselves to it. Add in global internet allowing instant communication anywhere and the consolidation and formation of massive corporate entities able to shape the communication of our modern lives. That communication tells us to continually consume more of their product, and if you can't you've failed. So yea, that will lead to some problems for sure.
- dang 3y ago
  Religious flamewar isn't allowed on HN, so please don't do this here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- _gabe_ 3y ago
  > The particular problem is they made up a whole bunch of shit and when the sciences in general came around, people when "wow, religion is a bunch of controlling bullshit". I think you have your history a bit backwards. Galileo is considered the father of modern science, and he was one of the people that believed those goat herders. He argued that his views were in accordance with the Bible, not that the Bible was a bunch of random shit that was made up. Here’s his words on the matter: >> Holy Scripture and nature both equally derive from the divine Word, the former as the dictation of the Holy Spirit, the latter as the most obedient executrix of God’s commands.[0] The reading the rest of that letter also seems to indicate that he was pretty heavily invested in his beliefs of religion and science being supportive of one another. The father of modern science believing and arguing for religion kind of makes your whole argument a moot point. [0]: https://web.stanford.edu/~jsabol/certainty/readings/Galileo-LetterDuchessChristina.pdf https://web.stanford.edu/~jsabol/certainty/readings/Galileo-...
  - paduc 3y ago
    He used the scientific method to make his discoveries then wrapped it in religious beliefs to avoid being burned at the stake.
    - Aerbil313 3y ago
      Nice mind reading. Do you have any actual evidence? From Isaac Newton: > Newton saw God as the masterful creator whose existence could not be denied in the face of the grandeur of all creation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Isaac_Newton https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Isaac_New...
  - pixl97 3y ago
    You're really working backwards. At the time people like Galileo started down the path of scientific discovery, he didn't think his religion was wrong though it seemed he quite disagreed with some in the leadership at time. Discovery after discovery afterwards, learning there was billions of years of history of Earth. Billions of years of evolution. That causality exists. That entropy exists. It was these pieces compounding that finally reached a tipping point for most letting them know "yes, this is a bunch of bullshit".
jplusequalt 3y ago
>The sexual revolution and its dreadful distortion of human sexuality. Please explain what you mean by this. >So what happens with the waning of religious identity? Various dehumanizing ideologies start to look attractive. This explains both the appeal of the sexual, racial, and ecological ideologies that have become popular recently. These ideologies promise identity and social belonging, perhaps even an alleged higher purpose, which is to say they offer false and flimsy identities, ones that have political utility for those who control them. Two things--firstly, are you suggesting that religion is not a dehumanizing ideology? Moreover are you also suggesting that it also doesn't have political utility? I think both of these are demonstrably false given a brief look at history. Secondly, you talk about the "appeal" of sexual and racial identities in recent times, and you seem to refer to these identities as "false and flimsy," can you explain what you mean here? Because it just comes off like you're arguing that anyone who doesn't identify as a cis-white heterosexual has a false sense of self.
- huarahuara 3y ago
  Not that account, but its obvious a settler society such as America has little unity compared to other societies such as Mestizo or East Asian Societies. A lack of religion, social harmony and cohesion, as well as a typical "American" upbringing leaves many feeling alone and without purpose or family. Combined with the growth of the internet, and you have many people who take up horrid ideologies typically at the far ends of the spectrum to fill the void of not having a loving family or a stable friend group. Its even worse now that the Russians have funded both the NRA and the BLM movement to radicalize both ends of the spectrum. https://www.npr.org/2019/09/27/765037952/senate-report-reveals-nra-was-foreign-asset-to-russia-ahead-of-2016 https://www.npr.org/2019/09/27/765037952/senate-report-revea... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7144436/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7144436/ https://www.axios.com/2020/06/10/russian-interference-2020-election-racial-injustice https://www.axios.com/2020/06/10/russian-interference-2020-e... you fell for the Russian Identity politics campaign
  - jplusequalt 3y ago
    Identity politics have existed longer than Putin and the internet. People have been fighting for the right to be themselves for a long long time. Also I'd posit that the typical "American upbringing" does little to make you feel a part of in-groups created by traditional American ideals.

pixl97 3y ago

So, to piss off as many religious people as possible.... A couple of goat herder psychologist a couple of millennia ago figured out if you told people they had a purpose things in general worked better. The particular problem is they made up a whole bunch of shit and when the sciences in general came around, people when "wow, religion is a bunch of controlling bullshit". Now, I will say that religion is only mostly a bunch of controlling bullshit, but they did understand people and that is why these religions had staying power that lasted thousands of years in some cases. As we came into the modern age we cast the religion away, but we did forget many of the important lessons on society building it had taught us. In the meantime psychology rapidly expanded, and it was used by both governments and corporations to control individuals with very little of that knowledge being broadly taught to society at large so they could inoculate themselves to it. Add in global internet allowing instant communication anywhere and the consolidation and formation of massive corporate entities able to shape the communication of our modern lives. That communication tells us to continually consume more of their product, and if you can't you've failed. So yea, that will lead to some problems for sure.

dang 3y ago
Religious flamewar isn't allowed on HN, so please don't do this here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
_gabe_ 3y ago
> The particular problem is they made up a whole bunch of shit and when the sciences in general came around, people when "wow, religion is a bunch of controlling bullshit". I think you have your history a bit backwards. Galileo is considered the father of modern science, and he was one of the people that believed those goat herders. He argued that his views were in accordance with the Bible, not that the Bible was a bunch of random shit that was made up. Here’s his words on the matter: >> Holy Scripture and nature both equally derive from the divine Word, the former as the dictation of the Holy Spirit, the latter as the most obedient executrix of God’s commands.[0] The reading the rest of that letter also seems to indicate that he was pretty heavily invested in his beliefs of religion and science being supportive of one another. The father of modern science believing and arguing for religion kind of makes your whole argument a moot point. [0]: https://web.stanford.edu/~jsabol/certainty/readings/Galileo-LetterDuchessChristina.pdf https://web.stanford.edu/~jsabol/certainty/readings/Galileo-...
- paduc 3y ago
  He used the scientific method to make his discoveries then wrapped it in religious beliefs to avoid being burned at the stake.
  - Aerbil313 3y ago
    Nice mind reading. Do you have any actual evidence? From Isaac Newton: > Newton saw God as the masterful creator whose existence could not be denied in the face of the grandeur of all creation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Isaac_Newton https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Isaac_New...
- pixl97 3y ago
  You're really working backwards. At the time people like Galileo started down the path of scientific discovery, he didn't think his religion was wrong though it seemed he quite disagreed with some in the leadership at time. Discovery after discovery afterwards, learning there was billions of years of history of Earth. Billions of years of evolution. That causality exists. That entropy exists. It was these pieces compounding that finally reached a tipping point for most letting them know "yes, this is a bunch of bullshit".

jplusequalt 3y ago

>The sexual revolution and its dreadful distortion of human sexuality. Please explain what you mean by this. >So what happens with the waning of religious identity? Various dehumanizing ideologies start to look attractive. This explains both the appeal of the sexual, racial, and ecological ideologies that have become popular recently. These ideologies promise identity and social belonging, perhaps even an alleged higher purpose, which is to say they offer false and flimsy identities, ones that have political utility for those who control them. Two things--firstly, are you suggesting that religion is not a dehumanizing ideology? Moreover are you also suggesting that it also doesn't have political utility? I think both of these are demonstrably false given a brief look at history. Secondly, you talk about the "appeal" of sexual and racial identities in recent times, and you seem to refer to these identities as "false and flimsy," can you explain what you mean here? Because it just comes off like you're arguing that anyone who doesn't identify as a cis-white heterosexual has a false sense of self.

huarahuara 3y ago
Not that account, but its obvious a settler society such as America has little unity compared to other societies such as Mestizo or East Asian Societies. A lack of religion, social harmony and cohesion, as well as a typical "American" upbringing leaves many feeling alone and without purpose or family. Combined with the growth of the internet, and you have many people who take up horrid ideologies typically at the far ends of the spectrum to fill the void of not having a loving family or a stable friend group. Its even worse now that the Russians have funded both the NRA and the BLM movement to radicalize both ends of the spectrum. https://www.npr.org/2019/09/27/765037952/senate-report-reveals-nra-was-foreign-asset-to-russia-ahead-of-2016 https://www.npr.org/2019/09/27/765037952/senate-report-revea... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7144436/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7144436/ https://www.axios.com/2020/06/10/russian-interference-2020-election-racial-injustice https://www.axios.com/2020/06/10/russian-interference-2020-e... you fell for the Russian Identity politics campaign
- jplusequalt 3y ago
  Identity politics have existed longer than Putin and the internet. People have been fighting for the right to be themselves for a long long time. Also I'd posit that the typical "American upbringing" does little to make you feel a part of in-groups created by traditional American ideals.