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No way in hell I would ever install a computer in my body, not even a pacemaker. I would rather shrivel up and return to nature than get rekt by a hardware/soft

No way in hell I would ever install a computer in my body, not even a pacemaker. I would rather shrivel up and return to nature than get rekt by a hardware/software mistake.

tsimionescu 3y ago
"I'd rather die for sure than risk being killed by a malfunction in a pacemaker" seems like a rather bizarre positon. I completely understand (and share) not wanting elective brain surgery for cybernetic implants of this kind, but a pacemaker is a very simple choice: if you need one, you either have it installed or you die. Sure, it might malfunction and kill you, but that's still better than 100% chance of death, isn't it?
- whalesalad 3y ago
  Honestly no. If my doc came to me and said, only option is a pace maker. I would probably just become a hermit and literally die.
  - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
    Become a hermit? You might not even be able to leave the hospital.
    - whalesalad 3y ago
      DNR :peace:
  - bastawhiz 3y ago
    I feel a great deal of sympathy for your loved ones. They'll either watch you decline care that will extend your life from ~hours to a normal lifespan, or at the other end of the spectrum they'll watch you live out an incredibly uncomfortable and tortured few months (if you're lucky). I hope you have a will.
    - whalesalad 3y ago
      This is such a wild statement. Why are we so caught up on ensuring people don't die? What if someone doesn't want to be alive anymore? Personal agency and absolute freedom are more important to me than life.
      - bastawhiz 3y ago
        Conversely, the idea of not liking a bit of metal and silicon keeping you from dying a terrible death SO MUCH that you'd rather just suffer and die (to the detriment of your loved ones) is an equally wild idea to me. You do you man, but that's a hell of a principle to hold up against existing.
        Kerb_ 3y ago
        People keep going on about living for the sake of loved ones but a terrifying amount of elderly people don't get the visitors to show for it. A lot of families would rather ignore them until it's time to say goodbye once they become too difficult to interact with regularly. And a lot of people would rather die comfortably or suddenly at an old age than die choking on their own fluids surrounded by family at an even older age. Although I draw my line a bit further down (and am pro-cybernetics for various reasons), I can see why invasive augmentation is where some people do. I don't plan on surviving some treatable cancers if I get diagnosed simply because merely existing as a worn out husk from the strain of the treatment is not worth the burden on my family and myself. Other cancers have a treatment that is worth trying to fight through. Managing a pacemaker is just not a fight they want to have.
      - eternityforest 3y ago
        Most people seem to lack theory of mind beyond assuming everyone is a clone of them, unless they actively work on that. Many people don't have a reference point for what it's like to not be afraid of death.
      - CatWChainsaw 3y ago
        Any time a thread even remotely tangential to life extension comes up, all "maybe we should think long and hard about this" commentary is met with "OMG EVIL DEATHIST" energy.
  - tsimionescu 3y ago
    I completely understand and respect the idea that you may not want to prolong your life. However, what baffles me is that the problem you see with a pacemaker is the fact that it could malfunction and kill you. Is that the right understanding? And if so, why is that worse than your body malfunctioning and dieing on its own?
ragequittah 3y ago
I feel like I might have perspective here, as I went through this decision. I died, was brought back to life (despite 99.99% chance of that never happening), and strangely have most of my faculties still available. I have a rare condition where I can just go v-fib at any time for no real reason at all. The doctor came into my room, gave me the option of getting an ICD implant. My first 4000 thoughts were hell no. He explained that otherwise I could just drop dead at any moment, and in all likelihood I wouldn't be the 1/1000 that survived. And if I were to survive I might just be a vegetable next time. I very hesitantly accepted after a lot of thought. BTW this is my 20s that this happened. Since then more than 1 person has died due to a software error with my device, and I have not been shocked once. I get "patched" all the time to rule out certain errors. But the odds of me dying without the device are still much higher than the odds of my dying with it. More importantly I fully believe the standard of care / investigation into my problems have increased significantly because I opted into having the device. Is that fair? Not really. Is that realistic? Yep, Boston Scientific wants data to make better devices. I'm in a country where the device was free to install, all care after is entirely free, which definitely helped make the decision. But if there's never a situation in which you'd consider such a compromise I'd say you've probably never woken up in the ICU with no memory of the past 20 days.

No way in hell I would ever install a computer in my body, not even a pacemaker. I would rather shrivel up and return to nature than get rekt by a hardware/software mistake.

tsimionescu 3y ago

"I'd rather die for sure than risk being killed by a malfunction in a pacemaker" seems like a rather bizarre positon. I completely understand (and share) not wanting elective brain surgery for cybernetic implants of this kind, but a pacemaker is a very simple choice: if you need one, you either have it installed or you die. Sure, it might malfunction and kill you, but that's still better than 100% chance of death, isn't it?

whalesalad 3y ago
Honestly no. If my doc came to me and said, only option is a pace maker. I would probably just become a hermit and literally die.
- SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
  Become a hermit? You might not even be able to leave the hospital.
  - whalesalad 3y ago
    DNR :peace:
- bastawhiz 3y ago
  I feel a great deal of sympathy for your loved ones. They'll either watch you decline care that will extend your life from ~hours to a normal lifespan, or at the other end of the spectrum they'll watch you live out an incredibly uncomfortable and tortured few months (if you're lucky). I hope you have a will.
  - whalesalad 3y ago
    This is such a wild statement. Why are we so caught up on ensuring people don't die? What if someone doesn't want to be alive anymore? Personal agency and absolute freedom are more important to me than life.
    - bastawhiz 3y ago
      Conversely, the idea of not liking a bit of metal and silicon keeping you from dying a terrible death SO MUCH that you'd rather just suffer and die (to the detriment of your loved ones) is an equally wild idea to me. You do you man, but that's a hell of a principle to hold up against existing.
      - Kerb_ 3y ago
        People keep going on about living for the sake of loved ones but a terrifying amount of elderly people don't get the visitors to show for it. A lot of families would rather ignore them until it's time to say goodbye once they become too difficult to interact with regularly. And a lot of people would rather die comfortably or suddenly at an old age than die choking on their own fluids surrounded by family at an even older age. Although I draw my line a bit further down (and am pro-cybernetics for various reasons), I can see why invasive augmentation is where some people do. I don't plan on surviving some treatable cancers if I get diagnosed simply because merely existing as a worn out husk from the strain of the treatment is not worth the burden on my family and myself. Other cancers have a treatment that is worth trying to fight through. Managing a pacemaker is just not a fight they want to have.
    - eternityforest 3y ago
      Most people seem to lack theory of mind beyond assuming everyone is a clone of them, unless they actively work on that. Many people don't have a reference point for what it's like to not be afraid of death.
    - CatWChainsaw 3y ago
      Any time a thread even remotely tangential to life extension comes up, all "maybe we should think long and hard about this" commentary is met with "OMG EVIL DEATHIST" energy.
- tsimionescu 3y ago
  I completely understand and respect the idea that you may not want to prolong your life. However, what baffles me is that the problem you see with a pacemaker is the fact that it could malfunction and kill you. Is that the right understanding? And if so, why is that worse than your body malfunctioning and dieing on its own?

ragequittah 3y ago

I feel like I might have perspective here, as I went through this decision. I died, was brought back to life (despite 99.99% chance of that never happening), and strangely have most of my faculties still available. I have a rare condition where I can just go v-fib at any time for no real reason at all. The doctor came into my room, gave me the option of getting an ICD implant. My first 4000 thoughts were hell no. He explained that otherwise I could just drop dead at any moment, and in all likelihood I wouldn't be the 1/1000 that survived. And if I were to survive I might just be a vegetable next time. I very hesitantly accepted after a lot of thought. BTW this is my 20s that this happened. Since then more than 1 person has died due to a software error with my device, and I have not been shocked once. I get "patched" all the time to rule out certain errors. But the odds of me dying without the device are still much higher than the odds of my dying with it. More importantly I fully believe the standard of care / investigation into my problems have increased significantly because I opted into having the device. Is that fair? Not really. Is that realistic? Yep, Boston Scientific wants data to make better devices. I'm in a country where the device was free to install, all care after is entirely free, which definitely helped make the decision. But if there's never a situation in which you'd consider such a compromise I'd say you've probably never woken up in the ICU with no memory of the past 20 days.