19 ms·

CEO video: back to the office now, or else

CarbonBasedUnit 3y ago
Who thought a video like this was a good idea? If you "aren't asking or negotiating at this point", why aren't first-level managers just telling employees to get back into the office or find another job?
- jedberg 3y ago
  > why aren't first-level managers just telling employees to get back into the office or find another job? Because if most of them just ignore you, what then? Fire most of your staff?
  - danesparza 3y ago
    Yes. And then answer to your shareholders. Also: Good luck filling those positions (especially after that video)
  - _vertigo 3y ago
    Amazon's approach to RTO seemed broadly effective at getting workers into the office even though it was largely bungled at level of fine details. 1. Track badging 2. Enforce RTO via chain-of-command. SVPs, VPs, and directors have aggregate RTO compliance metrics. SVPs crack the whip on VPs to get their numbers up, VPs crack the whip on their directors, and directors crack the whip on their reports, and so on, all the way down. The actual implementation of the policy was a mess and there was poor messaging especially at the beginning. I'm pretty sure it still doesn't take PTO or illnesses into account — if there's an issue with that, you're supposed to work it out with your manager — and from what I heard they simply handled the holidays by excluding the work weeks before and after Christmas from the metrics. But, ultimately, the chain of command approach appears to have worked very well in terms of actually getting people to come in. edit: Just noticed from your profile that you also work at Amazon, so I guess there's nothing new in my comment for you :)
    - jedberg 3y ago
      Having worked at Amazon through RTO I can tell you that it was effective at getting a lot of people to come in, but no one is happy about it and it has made work much less efficient and productive for everyone. Most people are maliciously complying. They will come in at 11:45, grab lunch, and then leave. The clever ones then come back late at night to badge in and out again after 6pm so it looks like they were there all day, just outside. So far they aren't counting total time on campus, but when they do those people will have good numbers. But it means they are now not working during those drive times. And they ones that are coming in all day waste a ton of everyone's time, including the remote people, looking for meeting rooms and setting up video calls, because every meeting still requires video, since all the teams are spread out over multiple offices. And they also had to resort to denying promotions and raises for anyone who didn't RTO.
      - _vertigo 3y ago
        Yep, that's all true. Like I said, bungled at the level of fine details, pretty questionable if it was a good decision, but largely effective at actually getting people to come in. People do work noticeably shorter days, a handful of people come in for less than 30 minutes (huge waste of resources and time), and yeah, there is a morale problem. One thing I have noticed is that the more co-located a team is, the more people behave like pre-Covid — in at 9:30, out at 5. Satellite workers who are coming in are the most unhappy (for obvious reasons) and are the most likely to badge in, grab a coffee and check their emails, and then leave and finish the day at home.
      - mynameisnoone 3y ago
        Amazon is moving from being a ruthlessly-efficient corporation to becoming a pennywise pound-foolish, stifling bureaucracy to make office workers miserable and drive away talent.* As Amazon's inability to do either WfH or RTO properly, it's footgunning itself with lower productivity, lower momentum, and lower competitiveness that the Target's, Costco's, and Walmart's of the world can and will exploit. If I were the Motley Fool, I would slap a "sell" rating on AMZN because the Bezos era has ended and the era of hyperdeep PHB MBA management pyramids has begun. * They already do their best to make delivery drivers' and warehouse workers jobs as inhuman and miserable as possible.
  - LiquidSky 3y ago
    Well, yeah. Or rather, if they’re going to take this tough guy “obey or else” stance, what other choice do they leave themselves?
- lainga 3y ago
  I don't know... I'm conjecturing a lot here, but it seems like the video was made because Bob Brisco thought it was funny, and his company's performance reviews hew towards How Often Did You Agree With Bob Brisco
  - danesparza 3y ago
    If he thought that was funny, that's even more reason to not work there.
  - Turing_Machine 3y ago
    I'm always amazed when someone like Stalinist Barney Fife rises to head a significant company. I shouldn't be amazed, but somehow I still always am.
- cdchn 3y ago
  Thinking this video is a good idea, and the message it is attempting to convey, both seem to be "on brand" for "Internet Brands Inc."
- artyom 3y ago
  > Who thought a video like this was a good idea? Probably the 3 entry-level employees that still care to go to the office.
rwmj 3y ago
As it's not clear from the title, it's this company: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Brands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Brands (most famous brand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebMD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebMD). They operate "online media, community, e-commerce, and SaaS businesses" but don't seem to believe in it that much.
- taylodl 3y ago
  > but don't seem to believe in it that much. Yeah, if they won't eat their own dog food then why would I want to eat it?
- EA-3167 3y ago
  WebMD is mostly famous for being a thorn in the ass of doctors, when panicked patients insist that their latest symptom is definitely cancer, and not trapped wind. They're a gift to unethical pharmaceutical companies and they add little to no value. But don't take my word for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebMD#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebMD#Criticism
  - rabuse 3y ago
    This happened to me in my early twenties. I'd have some symptoms, look them up, and it always led to either cancer or aneurysm. It actually made me a hypochondriac for years, and I had to just stop.
    - rthkljlkrj 3y ago
      The thing to realize is that the map between illnesses and symptoms is many-to-one. Given some symptoms, doctors assume the most common thing (because then they're right most of the time) and WebMD assumes the scariest thing (because it benefits their traffic).
  - 303uru 3y ago
    When I was a practicing pharmacists it was the bane of my existence. Can't wait for some ChatGPT skin to put it out of business.
OnlyMortal 3y ago
Else please.
candiddevmike 3y ago
More like "quit now so we don't have to lay you off soon and pay benefits/severance/unemployment" Related: has any contested RTO on a disability basis?
filedottsx 3y ago
Article links to this public video: https://vimeo.com/866052086/7d7781e9ea https://vimeo.com/866052086/7d7781e9ea
- moate 3y ago
  The funniest part: for several hours the video itself had comments enabled(before any outside media picked it up). The employees this was directed at felt very similarly to most of the comments on HN.
redleggedfrog 3y ago
Based on the message of the video I would have to guess that the video was created by folks working at home. They might have wanted to get the video done in office for better results. ;^) Sarcasm aside, capitalism at work, really nothing to see here. They'll lose employees from the demand to work in office for the various reasons, and maybe it'll affect their bottom line, and maybe they'll learn some lessons. Or maybe they whither by not moving with the times. The websites they create are nothing that couldn't be lost.
theflyestpilot 3y ago
Love how most of the testimonials had a green screen of "an office" as the backdrop
selimthegrim 3y ago
Speaking as a New Orleans resident, I am pretty sure Iko Iko deserves better than this video. I refuse to comment on the interpretation of the lyrics.
- cameron_b 3y ago
  I got weird feelings about that as well. I'm not sure they mean to start a RTO Krewe, but it sure feels like they're calling out the WFH Krewe.
GoToRO 3y ago
So still no good reason to go back to the office from what those managers said. Only inept statements like "we are better together" and so on.
- gopher_space 3y ago
  The thing is that I'm able and frequently required to produce math that backs up my statements or feelings on a subject. I'm not right all the time, but I can demonstrate my chain of logic to others.
- beeboop 3y ago
  "We have big goals" translation: "we want you to work harder and spend 2 hours a day commuting to an uncomfortable office to make us more money"
neilv 3y ago
Why do all the executives talking with office backdrops look composited in (i.e., not actually there in that office)?
- erksa 3y ago
  Exactly what I was wondering as well.
- gryn 3y ago
  because those rules obviously don't apply to them.
- PlunderBunny 3y ago
  Probably because he wasn't at the office.
- Kluggy 3y ago
  if you watch to the end, they have folks dancing in front of the office backdrops and it's obvious they were green screened in.
- seoulmetro 3y ago
  That's the funniest part!! It looks like they're all at home green screened in to their "amazing offices". Every single one of them.
neilv 3y ago
Type what it's like to work in WebMD's office... into WebMD search... and it'll say that you have cancer?
wolverine876 3y ago
The video seems fine to me: https://vimeo.com/866052086/7d7781e9ea https://vimeo.com/866052086/7d7781e9ea The tag line at the end could be interpreted different ways and is slightly awkward, but not enough that I'd give it a second thought. IMHO this article is just people yet again trying flex the power of shame and contempt, against something they dislike (returning to in-person work). Before you join in, just watch the video!
- danesparza 3y ago
  I would argue the video is trying to flex the executive power of a company using shame and contempt, against something they don't like (or understand?): remote work. I would agree with your final statement and would go further: Share with any people considering work at WebMD: Better to cringe now instead of after you accept an offer.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    Where do you see shame and contempt in the video? It's pretty friendly.
    - danesparza 3y ago
      Menace, sarcasm, shame and contempt can be presented as friendly but still have the same effect. Here is an incomplete list of items that might fall into this list: - The opening frame of the video, indicating no one is there because everyone is in person - "Unfortuately, too big of a group hasn't returned"- "We need you ready and present and we need it now". Both of these indicate the employees that are working remotely are not pleasing to the senior leadership staff -- and whether they were performing well or not doesn't seem to be addressed by that same senior leadership staff. It also seems to imply the employees weren't 'ready and present' up to this point. - The background music (which is either tone-deaf to the message or downright menacing). Iko-iko (the song) has a meaning.
      - wolverine876 3y ago
bnchrch 3y ago
Personally, having worked remotely since 2014, I feel quite secure in the fact the remote work is here long term. The economics of it make sense on both sides (Office costs, salary costs, commutes, hiring pool access) And the organization impacts work well (for knowledge based businesses) if Leadership is able to adapt to measuring outputs instead of inputs and fostering clarity of goals.
- staplers 3y ago
  The economics of it make sense on both sides It's mostly about inflating commercial real estate valuations (many companies heavily invested) and exerting control over the workforce. Smart companies don't care about either but many (usually larger) corps have vested interest in both.
  - WheatMillington 3y ago
    Managers don't care about commercial property values, I don't understand why this asinine argument keeps being made.
    - colinmorelli 3y ago
      Beyond the fact that mangers don't care, there are many, many businesses with zero commercial real estate holdings outside of a fairly short term lease (which is a sunk cost regardless) who also promote RTO. The argument that all these businesses care less about their core business than they do about their (often non-existent) commercial real estate holdings seems tenuous at best. Feels like we keep trying to look for a conspiracy when in reality that answer might just be that leaders believe their teams to be more productive in office (Note: I'm not saying I believe this to be true, that there's evidence for this, that it's right, or anything else along those lines. Just that the most plausible explanation is that people asking for RTO believe it's going to make the company more valuable, not their commercial real estate holdings.)
      - staplers 3y ago
lagniappe 3y ago
These return to office movements pair suspiciously well with the recent layoffs, but with a smarter touch and a little more forethought. Bravo, so it looks like this strategy works, but at what cost?
pompino 3y ago
This is going to be a sore point for all workplaces going forward. Naturally each company is different, but from my experience, I have worked for years in a manufacturing company and I personally know people who will jump on remote work only to st around watching netflix all day. These folks have to be reminded daily what their job is and will find any excuse to not work. On the flip side You also have conscientious people (often knowledge workers) who want remote work to save on commute time and distractions, and who will actually have increased productivity working remotely. I believe there is room for multiple opinions without demonizing either side.
- ben_jones 3y ago
  > I personally know people who will jump on remote work only to st around watching netflix all day In office work is prone to the same difficulty in different forms. You don’t think people were alt-tabbing in the office? Taking really long lunches or coffee breaks? Tying one or more drinks on during those breaks? Clocking out mentally if not physically by 2 on Fridays?
  - pompino 3y ago
    It is easier to do all of that when you're remote. Not really a surprise.
- cdchn 3y ago
  There are ways to measure performance beyond "someone is sitting in a chair within eyeshot." Its non-trivial, but its do-able.
  - pompino 3y ago
    Everyone says that, but nobody actually provides a way to do it that doesn't also piss off the workers.
    - op00to 3y ago
      Biweekly 1:1s with clear expectations and checkups seem to work well for the last decade+ for me remote.
dmitrygr 3y ago
This is quite literally the dumbest thing I've seen all day and an insult to anyone with half a brain cell. I would quit over just the existence of this video if it had been authored by the company I work at.
- rabuse 3y ago
  Don't quit, let them fire you, so you get all the benefits.
  - dmitrygr 3y ago
    The place I currently work at does not do such things. Most of us are remote.
dijit 3y ago
"eh, this isn't so bad, heavy handed use of the fact they're not negotiating apparently but fair enough" *CEO stops talking... extremely cringe workers dancing with a greenscreen backdrop... google meet "no one else is here; because we are all in person now!" and... their interpretation of the lyrics to the background song*. Wow. What a close, awful. Truly awful. -- However to defend them a little, I personally have noticed that the people who routinely come to the office tend to be better informed and have more realistic expectations of what is possible. It's true that being in-person can paper over communication gaps, and you can argue that those gaps shouldn't exist; but they do. Additionally, while I am CTO of a remote-first company there starts becoming a knowledge and culture imbalance with the people who are capable of going to the office from time-to-time. It's also true that we need a lot of positive interactions as humans, and we tend to have micro-positive interactions more often in person, usually when we reach out to someone over text chat or have a meeting it's somewhat negative. My psychologist once told me it takes 9 good interactions to offset 1 bad one, which is probably not grounded in science but I think the proportions are something like that; and it seems like we are more prone to communicate more often negatively if there is any friction in making that communication. I would like us to have some form of strongly flexible work, but I am not certain that this is possible... it's essentially "worst of both worlds" where we have an expensive office that is barely used and people can't live where they really want to. I guess co-working is the way to solve the former, but it doesn't help with the latter. Though co-working spaces can be as expensive for 1 week as taking a whole month anyway. :(
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Giorgi 3y ago
"Come back or else! Management roles are at stake!" This video is coping mechanism for managers who just realized employees work better without them.
sys_64738 3y ago
Just ignore them and let them fire you. Lawsuit.
- WheatMillington 3y ago
  Aren't American workers generally "at will"? What would be the basis of a lawsuit? Working remotely isn't a protected class, is it?
  - sys_64738 3y ago
    Generally, yes, but companies usually don't want to deal with employee litigation due to costs and bad publicity. It's why employers give generous severance so that you won't sue them.
thrillgore 3y ago
"Cringe. There's no other word for it. This makes me cringe. It's embarrassing."
davidandgoliath 3y ago
Little amusing that everyone speaking in the video was in front of a green screen, and not actually in the office, no?
mlboss 3y ago
The reason to come to office doesn't sound very convincing. What is convincing is the threat at the end.
xyst 3y ago
Companies trying to work like it’s the 1990s will become defunct in the coming decades. Being able to work remotely is a skill. Those unable to do so and companies implementing blanket policies to return to office are fossils in a digital age. I finish work in 1-2 hrs. With RTO, I finish work within 4-5 hrs. Combine this with a physical commute. Constant breaks in attention. People just asking stupid shit irl when it’s clearly documented online. The cOlLaBorRaTiOn is really just micromanaging issues projected onto us. Oh and let’s not forget the exposure to your virus of the week/month from people with kids in school or daycare! Just another deadass company and one that I will never directly work for
- claytonjy 3y ago
  what kind of role are you in and at what kind of company that there is so little for you to do? Do you never meet with coworkers or bosses? I think it's awesome some people have found such a place, more power to them/you, but having so little to do is a very alien concept to me.
  - helij 3y ago
    I didn't understand the comment you're replying saying there's little for them to do. Can you elaborate?
    - claytonjy 3y ago
      they said they finish work in 1-2 hours
      - helij 3y ago
        I read that as finishing a task in 1-2 hours when working from home and multiple times more when in the office due to all distractions.
        xboxnolifes 3y ago
        It takes them multiple hours more to finish the same amount of work, not finishing multiple hours more of work.
morgango 3y ago
I have worked in remote-first organizations for more than 15 years, mostly at technology companies, both as an individual contributor and a manager. By dint of my role, I also get to meet with companies of all different sizes all over the country and see companies who are fully remote, hybrid, and fully on-premise. I have literally talked with hundreds of companies across the world and got to observe the differences. There are some leaders who simply can't function in a remote environment. However, this is a flaw of their leadership and the organizational culture, not a problem with employees or their preferences. It is a problem with personal fear, inflexibility, and lack of vision more than anything else. My experience is that the older people are and the longer they have worked at a company, the more issues they have with remote work. We proved during COVID that we can function just fine remotely. It benefits the employees in a hundred different ways. An organization that wants people to come to work at their detriment is one that doesn't value their people, and this is how they are expressing it.
- SpaceNoodled 3y ago
  I am going to quote your last sentence.
- htss2013 3y ago
  >An organization that wants people to come to work at their detriment is one that doesn't value their people, and this is how they are expressing it. Yes this is the entire point. They want to turn up both voluntary attrition or be able to fire for cause. Either way they get to lighten their employee costs which is the goal.
  - woleium 3y ago
    The thing is, when you do it this way you loose the best and the brightest, which starts a downward spiral as those were the only ones who could hire good people.
petrusnonius 3y ago
Is there any actual data on this? I'm yet to see executives back up these requests with evidence of their claims. It's a thinly veiled way of driving "unregretted attrition" without having to announce layoffs. The great thing about free markets however is that companies that offer remote working have a great competitive advantage by virtue of that alone.
- jedberg 3y ago
  The best study was mixed at best. For some cases remote work was more productive, for some cases it was the same. But in no cases was in office more efficient, except for the entry level jobs. However, there haven't been any long term studies on "innovation", if you can even define that, and how it fares with remote work. There is also no long term data on how new people to the industry will do starting their career remotely. I know personally I would not be where I am if I weren't in the office near senior people at the start of my career. But I also know that there are ways to replicate that ad-hoc learning with remote work.
tmccrary55 3y ago
Was there something in this submission that caused it to get shadowbanned?
303uru 3y ago
Perhaps the best part about this video is the slovenly executives who appear to be poorly green screened into office environments.
webmdsucks 3y ago
This isn't even all the cringe. My partner works remotely for WebMD. Their managers didn't even know about this "directive" before they released the video. The managers were as shocked as all the regular employees. Oh and additionally, they've been running at less than a skeleton crew for the last couple years. Choosing to hire overseas contractors that can't due the full job due to HIPPA requirements. They are trying to get people to quit so they don't have to pay severance.
mynameisnoone 3y ago
My first thought was WebMD is a shitty pseudo-health company that promulgates marginally useless, borderline misinformation with an air of overconfidence and unearned certainty so I don't think anyone would be too proud to work for them except CEO guy. My second thought was their CEO looks like someone named Chester who isn't legally allowed near children. My third thought was they made the finals of weird videos to be mocked on Last Week Tonight when it comes back in February. Conclusion: They jumped their own shark in a way Elon would find difficult to attain so I don't think anyone good would want to RTO to work for them anyhow.
workfromspace 3y ago
https://archive.is/mX4Vu https://archive.is/mX4Vu https://web.archive.org/web/20240111005335/https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kxqnx/dont-mess-with-us-webmd-parent-company-demands-return-to-office-in-bizarre-video https://web.archive.org/web/20240111005335/https://www.vice....
Turing_Machine 3y ago
Did I miss it, or was there not one person from engineering in that video? Lots of bean counters and HR types, though.
Chickeeechow 3y ago
My friend works for the company -- and it turns out they closed down 2 offices in NY and built the one in Newark which no one wants to go to - and charge you 30$ a day for parking. And now -- this video...

Who thought a video like this was a good idea? If you "aren't asking or negotiating at this point", why aren't first-level managers just telling employees to get back into the office or find another job?

jedberg 3y ago
> why aren't first-level managers just telling employees to get back into the office or find another job? Because if most of them just ignore you, what then? Fire most of your staff?
- danesparza 3y ago
  Yes. And then answer to your shareholders. Also: Good luck filling those positions (especially after that video)
- _vertigo 3y ago
  Amazon's approach to RTO seemed broadly effective at getting workers into the office even though it was largely bungled at level of fine details. 1. Track badging 2. Enforce RTO via chain-of-command. SVPs, VPs, and directors have aggregate RTO compliance metrics. SVPs crack the whip on VPs to get their numbers up, VPs crack the whip on their directors, and directors crack the whip on their reports, and so on, all the way down. The actual implementation of the policy was a mess and there was poor messaging especially at the beginning. I'm pretty sure it still doesn't take PTO or illnesses into account — if there's an issue with that, you're supposed to work it out with your manager — and from what I heard they simply handled the holidays by excluding the work weeks before and after Christmas from the metrics. But, ultimately, the chain of command approach appears to have worked very well in terms of actually getting people to come in. edit: Just noticed from your profile that you also work at Amazon, so I guess there's nothing new in my comment for you :)
  - jedberg 3y ago
    Having worked at Amazon through RTO I can tell you that it was effective at getting a lot of people to come in, but no one is happy about it and it has made work much less efficient and productive for everyone. Most people are maliciously complying. They will come in at 11:45, grab lunch, and then leave. The clever ones then come back late at night to badge in and out again after 6pm so it looks like they were there all day, just outside. So far they aren't counting total time on campus, but when they do those people will have good numbers. But it means they are now not working during those drive times. And they ones that are coming in all day waste a ton of everyone's time, including the remote people, looking for meeting rooms and setting up video calls, because every meeting still requires video, since all the teams are spread out over multiple offices. And they also had to resort to denying promotions and raises for anyone who didn't RTO.
    - _vertigo 3y ago
      Yep, that's all true. Like I said, bungled at the level of fine details, pretty questionable if it was a good decision, but largely effective at actually getting people to come in. People do work noticeably shorter days, a handful of people come in for less than 30 minutes (huge waste of resources and time), and yeah, there is a morale problem. One thing I have noticed is that the more co-located a team is, the more people behave like pre-Covid — in at 9:30, out at 5. Satellite workers who are coming in are the most unhappy (for obvious reasons) and are the most likely to badge in, grab a coffee and check their emails, and then leave and finish the day at home.
    - mynameisnoone 3y ago
      Amazon is moving from being a ruthlessly-efficient corporation to becoming a pennywise pound-foolish, stifling bureaucracy to make office workers miserable and drive away talent.* As Amazon's inability to do either WfH or RTO properly, it's footgunning itself with lower productivity, lower momentum, and lower competitiveness that the Target's, Costco's, and Walmart's of the world can and will exploit. If I were the Motley Fool, I would slap a "sell" rating on AMZN because the Bezos era has ended and the era of hyperdeep PHB MBA management pyramids has begun. * They already do their best to make delivery drivers' and warehouse workers jobs as inhuman and miserable as possible.
- LiquidSky 3y ago
  Well, yeah. Or rather, if they’re going to take this tough guy “obey or else” stance, what other choice do they leave themselves?
lainga 3y ago
I don't know... I'm conjecturing a lot here, but it seems like the video was made because Bob Brisco thought it was funny, and his company's performance reviews hew towards How Often Did You Agree With Bob Brisco
- danesparza 3y ago
  If he thought that was funny, that's even more reason to not work there.
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  I'm always amazed when someone like Stalinist Barney Fife rises to head a significant company. I shouldn't be amazed, but somehow I still always am.
cdchn 3y ago
Thinking this video is a good idea, and the message it is attempting to convey, both seem to be "on brand" for "Internet Brands Inc."
artyom 3y ago
> Who thought a video like this was a good idea? Probably the 3 entry-level employees that still care to go to the office.

rwmj 3y ago

As it's not clear from the title, it's this company: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Brands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Brands (most famous brand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebMD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebMD). They operate "online media, community, e-commerce, and SaaS businesses" but don't seem to believe in it that much.

taylodl 3y ago
> but don't seem to believe in it that much. Yeah, if they won't eat their own dog food then why would I want to eat it?
EA-3167 3y ago
WebMD is mostly famous for being a thorn in the ass of doctors, when panicked patients insist that their latest symptom is definitely cancer, and not trapped wind. They're a gift to unethical pharmaceutical companies and they add little to no value. But don't take my word for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebMD#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebMD#Criticism
- rabuse 3y ago
  This happened to me in my early twenties. I'd have some symptoms, look them up, and it always led to either cancer or aneurysm. It actually made me a hypochondriac for years, and I had to just stop.
  - rthkljlkrj 3y ago
    The thing to realize is that the map between illnesses and symptoms is many-to-one. Given some symptoms, doctors assume the most common thing (because then they're right most of the time) and WebMD assumes the scariest thing (because it benefits their traffic).
- 303uru 3y ago
  When I was a practicing pharmacists it was the bane of my existence. Can't wait for some ChatGPT skin to put it out of business.

OnlyMortal 3y ago

Else please.

candiddevmike 3y ago

More like "quit now so we don't have to lay you off soon and pay benefits/severance/unemployment" Related: has any contested RTO on a disability basis?

filedottsx 3y ago

Article links to this public video: https://vimeo.com/866052086/7d7781e9ea https://vimeo.com/866052086/7d7781e9ea

moate 3y ago
The funniest part: for several hours the video itself had comments enabled(before any outside media picked it up). The employees this was directed at felt very similarly to most of the comments on HN.

redleggedfrog 3y ago

Based on the message of the video I would have to guess that the video was created by folks working at home. They might have wanted to get the video done in office for better results. ;^) Sarcasm aside, capitalism at work, really nothing to see here. They'll lose employees from the demand to work in office for the various reasons, and maybe it'll affect their bottom line, and maybe they'll learn some lessons. Or maybe they whither by not moving with the times. The websites they create are nothing that couldn't be lost.

theflyestpilot 3y ago

Love how most of the testimonials had a green screen of "an office" as the backdrop

selimthegrim 3y ago

Speaking as a New Orleans resident, I am pretty sure Iko Iko deserves better than this video. I refuse to comment on the interpretation of the lyrics.

cameron_b 3y ago
I got weird feelings about that as well. I'm not sure they mean to start a RTO Krewe, but it sure feels like they're calling out the WFH Krewe.

GoToRO 3y ago

So still no good reason to go back to the office from what those managers said. Only inept statements like "we are better together" and so on.

gopher_space 3y ago
The thing is that I'm able and frequently required to produce math that backs up my statements or feelings on a subject. I'm not right all the time, but I can demonstrate my chain of logic to others.
beeboop 3y ago
"We have big goals" translation: "we want you to work harder and spend 2 hours a day commuting to an uncomfortable office to make us more money"

neilv 3y ago

Why do all the executives talking with office backdrops look composited in (i.e., not actually there in that office)?

erksa 3y ago
Exactly what I was wondering as well.
gryn 3y ago
because those rules obviously don't apply to them.
PlunderBunny 3y ago
Probably because he wasn't at the office.
Kluggy 3y ago
if you watch to the end, they have folks dancing in front of the office backdrops and it's obvious they were green screened in.
seoulmetro 3y ago
That's the funniest part!! It looks like they're all at home green screened in to their "amazing offices". Every single one of them.

neilv 3y ago

Type what it's like to work in WebMD's office... into WebMD search... and it'll say that you have cancer?

wolverine876 3y ago

The video seems fine to me: https://vimeo.com/866052086/7d7781e9ea https://vimeo.com/866052086/7d7781e9ea The tag line at the end could be interpreted different ways and is slightly awkward, but not enough that I'd give it a second thought. IMHO this article is just people yet again trying flex the power of shame and contempt, against something they dislike (returning to in-person work). Before you join in, just watch the video!

danesparza 3y ago
I would argue the video is trying to flex the executive power of a company using shame and contempt, against something they don't like (or understand?): remote work. I would agree with your final statement and would go further: Share with any people considering work at WebMD: Better to cringe now instead of after you accept an offer.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  Where do you see shame and contempt in the video? It's pretty friendly.
  - danesparza 3y ago
    Menace, sarcasm, shame and contempt can be presented as friendly but still have the same effect. Here is an incomplete list of items that might fall into this list: - The opening frame of the video, indicating no one is there because everyone is in person - "Unfortuately, too big of a group hasn't returned"- "We need you ready and present and we need it now". Both of these indicate the employees that are working remotely are not pleasing to the senior leadership staff -- and whether they were performing well or not doesn't seem to be addressed by that same senior leadership staff. It also seems to imply the employees weren't 'ready and present' up to this point. - The background music (which is either tone-deaf to the message or downright menacing). Iko-iko (the song) has a meaning.
    - wolverine876 3y ago

bnchrch 3y ago

Personally, having worked remotely since 2014, I feel quite secure in the fact the remote work is here long term. The economics of it make sense on both sides (Office costs, salary costs, commutes, hiring pool access) And the organization impacts work well (for knowledge based businesses) if Leadership is able to adapt to measuring outputs instead of inputs and fostering clarity of goals.

staplers 3y ago
The economics of it make sense on both sides It's mostly about inflating commercial real estate valuations (many companies heavily invested) and exerting control over the workforce. Smart companies don't care about either but many (usually larger) corps have vested interest in both.
- WheatMillington 3y ago
  Managers don't care about commercial property values, I don't understand why this asinine argument keeps being made.
  - colinmorelli 3y ago
    Beyond the fact that mangers don't care, there are many, many businesses with zero commercial real estate holdings outside of a fairly short term lease (which is a sunk cost regardless) who also promote RTO. The argument that all these businesses care less about their core business than they do about their (often non-existent) commercial real estate holdings seems tenuous at best. Feels like we keep trying to look for a conspiracy when in reality that answer might just be that leaders believe their teams to be more productive in office (Note: I'm not saying I believe this to be true, that there's evidence for this, that it's right, or anything else along those lines. Just that the most plausible explanation is that people asking for RTO believe it's going to make the company more valuable, not their commercial real estate holdings.)
    - staplers 3y ago

lagniappe 3y ago

These return to office movements pair suspiciously well with the recent layoffs, but with a smarter touch and a little more forethought. Bravo, so it looks like this strategy works, but at what cost?

pompino 3y ago

This is going to be a sore point for all workplaces going forward. Naturally each company is different, but from my experience, I have worked for years in a manufacturing company and I personally know people who will jump on remote work only to st around watching netflix all day. These folks have to be reminded daily what their job is and will find any excuse to not work. On the flip side You also have conscientious people (often knowledge workers) who want remote work to save on commute time and distractions, and who will actually have increased productivity working remotely. I believe there is room for multiple opinions without demonizing either side.

ben_jones 3y ago
> I personally know people who will jump on remote work only to st around watching netflix all day In office work is prone to the same difficulty in different forms. You don’t think people were alt-tabbing in the office? Taking really long lunches or coffee breaks? Tying one or more drinks on during those breaks? Clocking out mentally if not physically by 2 on Fridays?
- pompino 3y ago
  It is easier to do all of that when you're remote. Not really a surprise.
cdchn 3y ago
There are ways to measure performance beyond "someone is sitting in a chair within eyeshot." Its non-trivial, but its do-able.
- pompino 3y ago
  Everyone says that, but nobody actually provides a way to do it that doesn't also piss off the workers.
  - op00to 3y ago
    Biweekly 1:1s with clear expectations and checkups seem to work well for the last decade+ for me remote.

dmitrygr 3y ago

This is quite literally the dumbest thing I've seen all day and an insult to anyone with half a brain cell. I would quit over just the existence of this video if it had been authored by the company I work at.

rabuse 3y ago
Don't quit, let them fire you, so you get all the benefits.
- dmitrygr 3y ago
  The place I currently work at does not do such things. Most of us are remote.

dijit 3y ago

"eh, this isn't so bad, heavy handed use of the fact they're not negotiating apparently but fair enough" *CEO stops talking... extremely cringe workers dancing with a greenscreen backdrop... google meet "no one else is here; because we are all in person now!" and... their interpretation of the lyrics to the background song*. Wow. What a close, awful. Truly awful. -- However to defend them a little, I personally have noticed that the people who routinely come to the office tend to be better informed and have more realistic expectations of what is possible. It's true that being in-person can paper over communication gaps, and you can argue that those gaps shouldn't exist; but they do. Additionally, while I am CTO of a remote-first company there starts becoming a knowledge and culture imbalance with the people who are capable of going to the office from time-to-time. It's also true that we need a lot of positive interactions as humans, and we tend to have micro-positive interactions more often in person, usually when we reach out to someone over text chat or have a meeting it's somewhat negative. My psychologist once told me it takes 9 good interactions to offset 1 bad one, which is probably not grounded in science but I think the proportions are something like that; and it seems like we are more prone to communicate more often negatively if there is any friction in making that communication. I would like us to have some form of strongly flexible work, but I am not certain that this is possible... it's essentially "worst of both worlds" where we have an expensive office that is barely used and people can't live where they really want to. I guess co-working is the way to solve the former, but it doesn't help with the latter. Though co-working spaces can be as expensive for 1 week as taking a whole month anyway. :(

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Giorgi 3y ago

"Come back or else! Management roles are at stake!" This video is coping mechanism for managers who just realized employees work better without them.

sys_64738 3y ago

Just ignore them and let them fire you. Lawsuit.

WheatMillington 3y ago
Aren't American workers generally "at will"? What would be the basis of a lawsuit? Working remotely isn't a protected class, is it?
- sys_64738 3y ago
  Generally, yes, but companies usually don't want to deal with employee litigation due to costs and bad publicity. It's why employers give generous severance so that you won't sue them.

thrillgore 3y ago

"Cringe. There's no other word for it. This makes me cringe. It's embarrassing."

davidandgoliath 3y ago

Little amusing that everyone speaking in the video was in front of a green screen, and not actually in the office, no?

mlboss 3y ago

The reason to come to office doesn't sound very convincing. What is convincing is the threat at the end.

xyst 3y ago

Companies trying to work like it’s the 1990s will become defunct in the coming decades. Being able to work remotely is a skill. Those unable to do so and companies implementing blanket policies to return to office are fossils in a digital age. I finish work in 1-2 hrs. With RTO, I finish work within 4-5 hrs. Combine this with a physical commute. Constant breaks in attention. People just asking stupid shit irl when it’s clearly documented online. The cOlLaBorRaTiOn is really just micromanaging issues projected onto us. Oh and let’s not forget the exposure to your virus of the week/month from people with kids in school or daycare! Just another deadass company and one that I will never directly work for

claytonjy 3y ago
what kind of role are you in and at what kind of company that there is so little for you to do? Do you never meet with coworkers or bosses? I think it's awesome some people have found such a place, more power to them/you, but having so little to do is a very alien concept to me.
- helij 3y ago
  I didn't understand the comment you're replying saying there's little for them to do. Can you elaborate?
  - claytonjy 3y ago
    they said they finish work in 1-2 hours
    - helij 3y ago
      I read that as finishing a task in 1-2 hours when working from home and multiple times more when in the office due to all distractions.
      - xboxnolifes 3y ago
        It takes them multiple hours more to finish the same amount of work, not finishing multiple hours more of work.

morgango 3y ago

I have worked in remote-first organizations for more than 15 years, mostly at technology companies, both as an individual contributor and a manager. By dint of my role, I also get to meet with companies of all different sizes all over the country and see companies who are fully remote, hybrid, and fully on-premise. I have literally talked with hundreds of companies across the world and got to observe the differences. There are some leaders who simply can't function in a remote environment. However, this is a flaw of their leadership and the organizational culture, not a problem with employees or their preferences. It is a problem with personal fear, inflexibility, and lack of vision more than anything else. My experience is that the older people are and the longer they have worked at a company, the more issues they have with remote work. We proved during COVID that we can function just fine remotely. It benefits the employees in a hundred different ways. An organization that wants people to come to work at their detriment is one that doesn't value their people, and this is how they are expressing it.

SpaceNoodled 3y ago
I am going to quote your last sentence.
htss2013 3y ago
>An organization that wants people to come to work at their detriment is one that doesn't value their people, and this is how they are expressing it. Yes this is the entire point. They want to turn up both voluntary attrition or be able to fire for cause. Either way they get to lighten their employee costs which is the goal.
- woleium 3y ago
  The thing is, when you do it this way you loose the best and the brightest, which starts a downward spiral as those were the only ones who could hire good people.

petrusnonius 3y ago

Is there any actual data on this? I'm yet to see executives back up these requests with evidence of their claims. It's a thinly veiled way of driving "unregretted attrition" without having to announce layoffs. The great thing about free markets however is that companies that offer remote working have a great competitive advantage by virtue of that alone.

jedberg 3y ago
The best study was mixed at best. For some cases remote work was more productive, for some cases it was the same. But in no cases was in office more efficient, except for the entry level jobs. However, there haven't been any long term studies on "innovation", if you can even define that, and how it fares with remote work. There is also no long term data on how new people to the industry will do starting their career remotely. I know personally I would not be where I am if I weren't in the office near senior people at the start of my career. But I also know that there are ways to replicate that ad-hoc learning with remote work.

tmccrary55 3y ago

Was there something in this submission that caused it to get shadowbanned?

303uru 3y ago

Perhaps the best part about this video is the slovenly executives who appear to be poorly green screened into office environments.

webmdsucks 3y ago

This isn't even all the cringe. My partner works remotely for WebMD. Their managers didn't even know about this "directive" before they released the video. The managers were as shocked as all the regular employees. Oh and additionally, they've been running at less than a skeleton crew for the last couple years. Choosing to hire overseas contractors that can't due the full job due to HIPPA requirements. They are trying to get people to quit so they don't have to pay severance.

mynameisnoone 3y ago

My first thought was WebMD is a shitty pseudo-health company that promulgates marginally useless, borderline misinformation with an air of overconfidence and unearned certainty so I don't think anyone would be too proud to work for them except CEO guy. My second thought was their CEO looks like someone named Chester who isn't legally allowed near children. My third thought was they made the finals of weird videos to be mocked on Last Week Tonight when it comes back in February. Conclusion: They jumped their own shark in a way Elon would find difficult to attain so I don't think anyone good would want to RTO to work for them anyhow.

workfromspace 3y ago

https://archive.is/mX4Vu https://archive.is/mX4Vu https://web.archive.org/web/20240111005335/https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kxqnx/dont-mess-with-us-webmd-parent-company-demands-return-to-office-in-bizarre-video https://web.archive.org/web/20240111005335/https://www.vice....

Turing_Machine 3y ago

Did I miss it, or was there not one person from engineering in that video? Lots of bean counters and HR types, though.

Chickeeechow 3y ago

My friend works for the company -- and it turns out they closed down 2 offices in NY and built the one in Newark which no one wants to go to - and charge you 30$ a day for parking. And now -- this video...