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A theory of the modern exclamation point!
- zelias 3y agoTop of the Muffin to you!
- khazhoux 3y agoKudos on the deep Lippman reference!
- skinkestek 3y ago[flagged]
- pimlottc 3y agoBecause one person thought it was interesting enough to submit and a bunch of other people thought it was interesting enough to upvote.
- triclops200 3y agoCorporate and professional dynamics often make it to the front page because it's important to many technical workers and hackers who have to make a living. This is a topic that's important to many women in tech, as they are often dictated how to present in a way that's unnatural to them in order to be more "professional" (read tfa). This is important to many readers of hacker news, as not everybody who is a hacker is a man (I am a woman who is also a hacker, for example, and I use a lot of exclamation marks in my writing, so, I found it interesting that this is noted by someone else, so I'm personally glad it's on the front page). I'm assuming you're asking genuinely, so this is a genuine attempt to explain :)
- csdvrx 3y ago> I'm personally glad it's on the front page I'm split on that, as it made me check the README I'm rewriting, and compare it to the previous version. After noticing an increase in the amount of exclamation points and enthusiasm, I think I may decide to rewrite it again, to cut down on the enthusiasm. Besides being an obvious waste of time, why should tech be boring? I don't want it boring! I want my vim and my xterm to be cute!
- triclops200 3y agoI took it as an excuse to add more exclamation marks!
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- glial 3y agoTo channel Cormac McCarthy: Exclamation marks are for exclamations.
- Swizec 3y agoAs an ESL, my opinions in exclamation points are “shrug”. But here’s something about tone that grinds my gears: Why is clear writing considered aggressive? I often find it nearly impossible to understand coworkers because they couch everything in layers of fluff. Seemingly to avoid coming across as aggressive. Especially when giving feedback. Please just tell me what’s wrong so I can fix it.
- _a_a_a_ 3y agoWord.
- MengerSponge 3y agoSkill issue. What you intend as "clear" has an aggressive tone. It may be related to power differentials: when talking to peers or superiors people tend to use more deferential and roundabout phrasing. When talking to an underling, communication can be much more terse.
- Detrytus 3y ago> Skill issue. What you intend as "clear" has an aggressive tone. That's one of the things I find weird about English. Just saying what you want in a straightforward way is considered "rude" or "aggressive", and you have to add tons of those bullshit expressions like "please", "would you mind", typically at least two or three of them in a single sentence. What a waste of time....
- kyrofa 3y agoIt seems overly simplistic to boil this down to sexism. You're really going to tell me that I'm sexist because I think emailing a paying customer with multiple sentences ending in multiple exclamation marks comes off as unprofessional? I should be able to have an opinion about messaging and tone without involving that person's gender.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y agoNot trying to comment on sexism but this sticks out to me: > I think emailing a paying customer with multiple sentences ending in multiple exclamation marks comes off as unprofessional Why?
- kyrofa 3y agoBecause we're providing a service. We're not buddies. We're not texting our bff. I don't like to see professional emails using "lol" either.
- floxy 3y agoNot the OP, but seems like the typical used-car sales pitch, where they yell at you to pay attention. If what they had was so great, they wouldn't have to yell. But since these are used cars, not materially different from other used cars, they try to differentiate themselves by volume instead of value. I think Apple could put out an 15 second ad, with just a black background, where in the first second a white Apple logo fades in. And then a several seconds later, a date fades in below the logo. Maybe a soft ocean sound in the background. And people would be eagerly awaiting whatever mystery launch is happening. (Or maybe Apple (or someone else) already has run an ad like this?)
- floxy 3y agoPlaying on that theme some more, exclamation points seem like a fake signal of importance. As in, I didn't bother to take the time to make my message interesting or useful, so I'll add this punctuation at the end to try to trick you into believing it is worthy of your time. But of course you didn't trick them, they just now start to dismiss you. Also, I could see similarities between exclamation use and swearing. Some people swear all the time, so it means essentially nothing. "I like fucking butter on my toast." So they don't have that option to escalate their language in the future. Whereas a person whose previous last use of the f-word was 20 years when they lost their leg in a traffic accident, now says "We need to get this fucking situation sorted out by Friday" gets some extra gravitas.
- MengerSponge 3y agoHey! You know what! In 2022 I am using exclamation points at the end of every email sentence! I don’t care if it looks like I’m unhinged! I am! Warmest regards!!! https://twitter.com/kaitfeldmann/status/1480629739542888451?lang=en https://twitter.com/kaitfeldmann/status/1480629739542888451?...
- block_dagger 3y agoIt's the repeated exclamations (!!) that are the true offenders.
- TacticalCoder 3y ago> It's the repeated exclamations (!!) that are the true offenders. A lawyer I know told me, about 25 years ago (before email was really common place everywhere), something I never forgot. I'm paraphrasing but it went like this: "When a would-be client sends me a letter with some words or a sentence written in a size 16 font in bold red characters and ends the sentence with three exclamation marks, I refuse that person as a client. They're impossible to deal with. They're people convinced they're always right and you cannot make reasoned arguments to these people.".
- yonisto 3y agoTop of the muffin to you!!!
- justsomehnguy 3y ago> If you think someone’s written communication style is off, or wrong, or bitchy: see if it’s possible to clarify their intention without asking them to change their tone. That works both ways, girl.
- trealira 3y agoI don't understand what you're implying, and I'm a man. You're trying to be rude to demonstrate something, but I don't know what. What is it?
- floxy 3y ago>There are very few situations in which I feel the need to be exclamation-free, and almost all of them involve a man who won’t take no for an answer. Interesting. I would have thought the opposite. Save the exclamation for emphasis, especially for something like "No!".
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y agoThis is an interesting thread for me. I’m definitely a cisgender man but that sentence makes total sense to me. She probably uses exclamation marks to be friendly or otherwise communicate a certain “happy” kind of tone. Like it’s intended to be said a bit passionately. Removing the exclamation marks makes it read as more serious; more like it’s just a pleasantry which is expected but not necessarily meant. It’s very distinct to me as the difference between these sentences: > Thanks, Alice! > Thanks, Alice. Now I’m curious about how others see it. Does one of the examples read more aggressive, more friendly, less genuine, etc.?
- floxy 3y agoI think it depends on the nature of the courtesy that was extended. "Thanks Alice! That loan of $1,000 you gave me got us over the hump so that the bank didn't foreclose on the orphanage." Seems more heartfelt and genuine than: "Thanks Alice! For passing me the menu sitting on the table at lunch today."
- floxy 3y agoAnd maybe the "Thanks Alice! For help with the orphanage..." still seems a little informal because of the exclamation point. So I got to thinking, when are they appropriate? Something like: "Boom! The sudden explosion rocked the mine-shaft, causing a cave-in that blocked the exit and filling the corridor with an almost asphyxiating amount of fine airborne dust." "'Help!' she cried as the giant sea monster drug her under the water..." ...seem perfectly acceptable. I don't know, maybe they just seem informal, and so shouldn't be used in communications where you want to be taken seriously. E=m·c²! Seems like you are trying too hard. But that's a bit strange now that I think about it, because exclamation points also seem like a lazy way to keep the readers interest. So it is potentially doubly cursed; trying too hard, and yet you are too lazy to even do that right. So maybe that's reason it requires a lot of finesse to use exclamation points properly! And a good excuse to use them sparingly.