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> Not sure if we can ever go back to that without some major catastrophe. We easily can. With the network effect, we can just encourage everyone we know that s

> Not sure if we can ever go back to that without some major catastrophe. We easily can. With the network effect, we can just encourage everyone we know that socializing with real people in real life is important and set up some coffees, lunches, dinners, walks, board games, etc, and then encourage those people to do the same with the people they know. Won't take very many hops to reach everyone this way and get back on track.

karaterobot 3y ago
Okay, I traveled back in time 30 years and convinced people to recognize the danger of being online all the time. I even made sure there would be innumerable studies suggesting it, and that pretty much everyone was at least aware of the danger. So, now that I'm back in 2024, everybody should already know that being online all the time is not healthy. I haven't checked yet, did it stop them from being addicted? I'm sure it did, right?!
s1artibartfast 3y ago
I think this is an issue of "can" in the "technically possible" vs "realistically possible". There are lots of people who have done exactly what you said, and others that never became terminally online, yet real-world re-adoption has been slow.
- pixl97 3y ago
  Technically possible: "We all stop eating too much and obesity drops" Realistically possible: "Obesity levels keep going up"
  - wait_a_minute 3y ago
    I think what you are both missing is that everyone reading this thread can, right now, schedule coffees and lunches and dinners for a month out and text people and get the ball rolling. We should not underestimate the impact of a few people making this effort, it will compound into great and positive results. I will be doing this myself since I recommended it. I expect to have at least five coffees or dinners scheduled for the next week by the end of the day. Let’s do it! Let’s get it done! It has to start somewhere after all. <3
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      I already have a several social dinners and social activities a week, and have been doing this for years. Most of my friends at this point are people who also socialize in real life at this point. I say this not to by cynical or cop-out. Im actually pretty optimistic about that things will swing back in the opposite direction. I just dont think it will be a quick snap out of it, but a painful lesson for many people, and a lot of people will be left behind. That is to say, a quick global anti-online revolution is compatible with the laws of physics, but I dont think it is likely. The good news is that nobody has to wait for the global revolution. They can do whatever they want starting today. I find physical interactions more rewarding and healthy, so I put in the effort to have them. I suspect most people would be happier if they did the same.
faeriechangling 3y ago
The issue I’ve been seeing in wealthy industrialized countries, is that people are becoming poorer as they grow older, the prices of energy are rising, the prices of land are rising, so simply getting people together is less viable than even 20 odd years ago. The internet gives you an instant connection to people who have interests specific to you better than even an expensive international convention can do for essentially free. If you decide this is worth it anyways, well you’re going to end up financially behind somebody using the internet in a cheap apartment on undesirable land, and that is going to undermine you bit by bit. Those who thrive in this era of humanity I think are just going to be well adapted to an online world, or just be wealthy enough that they can afford the luxury of meeting in person. The only way in which I see this trend moving in the opposite direction is that the average amount of people living in each home is likely to rise due to land cost.
- thfuran 3y ago
  >If you decide this is worth it anyways, well you’re going to end up financially behind somebody using the internet in a cheap apartment on undesirable land, and that is going to undermine you bit by bit. Money can't help you when you're dead, so if you don't use it to improve your life or someone else's, it doesn't help at all. How is the depressed person living in an undesirable place ahead exactly?
  - faeriechangling 3y ago
    In my thought experiment I’m trying to compare somebody who is perfectly happy in this new world spending much time behind screens, and somebody who needs more face to face interaction to be happy. I think the latter are doomed to try and keep up with the former by making personal sacrifices. I think about this because in my youth the kids who spent all day in front of a computer were treated as disabled, disordered, and aberrant who needed to be pushed to be more social to succeed. Mostly boys were treated in this way. Yet I feel it’s these socially driven people who are fucked. Mostly women.
pixl97 3y ago
>We easily can. With the network effect, Sometimes I wonder if people read what they actually write? What you're saying is you want everyone to disconnect and no longer be part of the network effect we're currently under.... This thinking seems to have a few flaws. 1. You have to remain within the supposed 'bad' network effect to broadcast your message. If you leave and go do your IRL things, you won't be there to broadcast your message (maybe bots doing it for you?). 2. You expect said networks to carry your message. You: "Lets all go outside", X: "Your message has been deleted due to violations of community standards". 3. You assume that being terminally online is not an addiction. That is just saying "Hey, lets go outside" has any effect on the vast majority of people that need to hear the message. Don't think of being on like smoking, it's not something you can just ban because it's part of life now. Think of it like eating, and how poorly that is going for the world at the moment with ever increasing obesity rates.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  Sticking with the tech analogy, People can and do switch networks all the time. You also don't have to wait for average user to become an early adopter.
AlwaysRock 3y ago
A lot of people want to spend more time with people irl but just dont know how/dont have access to like minded people irl. Part of the allure of the internet is that if I want to talk about Mass Effect tabletop roll playing, there are plenty of other people to talk about that with. If I want to have a conversation about the same thing in person... Maybe there is someone in my city who might want to talk about that? But it is so much more work to make that happen than online. I dont mind talking about sports/local stuff/mass media/small talk all that much but that is most of what I'm going to get from the folks I'm interacting with on a regular basis IRL.
everdrive 3y ago
This is like saying we can easily stop the obesity epidemic. The problem is pretty simple conceptually, but it's not going to be solved. The requirements for ignoring social media and practicing true impulse control lay outside of the bell curve of impulse control for much of humanity. People _could_ stop using social media, but they're not going to. Same reason why most people are fat. Yes, I know there are environmental factors, but all those do is squeeze a tighter box around the percentile of people who have the impulse control and resources to eat and exercise properly to maintain a good physique.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  However, global behavior does change, and not always for worse. It is usually just slow and people and culture adapt. The good news is that individuals don't have to wait on society. They can choose to be early adapters.

karaterobot 3y ago

Okay, I traveled back in time 30 years and convinced people to recognize the danger of being online all the time. I even made sure there would be innumerable studies suggesting it, and that pretty much everyone was at least aware of the danger. So, now that I'm back in 2024, everybody should already know that being online all the time is not healthy. I haven't checked yet, did it stop them from being addicted? I'm sure it did, right?!

s1artibartfast 3y ago

I think this is an issue of "can" in the "technically possible" vs "realistically possible". There are lots of people who have done exactly what you said, and others that never became terminally online, yet real-world re-adoption has been slow.

pixl97 3y ago
Technically possible: "We all stop eating too much and obesity drops" Realistically possible: "Obesity levels keep going up"
- wait_a_minute 3y ago
  I think what you are both missing is that everyone reading this thread can, right now, schedule coffees and lunches and dinners for a month out and text people and get the ball rolling. We should not underestimate the impact of a few people making this effort, it will compound into great and positive results. I will be doing this myself since I recommended it. I expect to have at least five coffees or dinners scheduled for the next week by the end of the day. Let’s do it! Let’s get it done! It has to start somewhere after all. <3
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    I already have a several social dinners and social activities a week, and have been doing this for years. Most of my friends at this point are people who also socialize in real life at this point. I say this not to by cynical or cop-out. Im actually pretty optimistic about that things will swing back in the opposite direction. I just dont think it will be a quick snap out of it, but a painful lesson for many people, and a lot of people will be left behind. That is to say, a quick global anti-online revolution is compatible with the laws of physics, but I dont think it is likely. The good news is that nobody has to wait for the global revolution. They can do whatever they want starting today. I find physical interactions more rewarding and healthy, so I put in the effort to have them. I suspect most people would be happier if they did the same.

faeriechangling 3y ago

The issue I’ve been seeing in wealthy industrialized countries, is that people are becoming poorer as they grow older, the prices of energy are rising, the prices of land are rising, so simply getting people together is less viable than even 20 odd years ago. The internet gives you an instant connection to people who have interests specific to you better than even an expensive international convention can do for essentially free. If you decide this is worth it anyways, well you’re going to end up financially behind somebody using the internet in a cheap apartment on undesirable land, and that is going to undermine you bit by bit. Those who thrive in this era of humanity I think are just going to be well adapted to an online world, or just be wealthy enough that they can afford the luxury of meeting in person. The only way in which I see this trend moving in the opposite direction is that the average amount of people living in each home is likely to rise due to land cost.

thfuran 3y ago
>If you decide this is worth it anyways, well you’re going to end up financially behind somebody using the internet in a cheap apartment on undesirable land, and that is going to undermine you bit by bit. Money can't help you when you're dead, so if you don't use it to improve your life or someone else's, it doesn't help at all. How is the depressed person living in an undesirable place ahead exactly?
- faeriechangling 3y ago
  In my thought experiment I’m trying to compare somebody who is perfectly happy in this new world spending much time behind screens, and somebody who needs more face to face interaction to be happy. I think the latter are doomed to try and keep up with the former by making personal sacrifices. I think about this because in my youth the kids who spent all day in front of a computer were treated as disabled, disordered, and aberrant who needed to be pushed to be more social to succeed. Mostly boys were treated in this way. Yet I feel it’s these socially driven people who are fucked. Mostly women.

pixl97 3y ago

>We easily can. With the network effect, Sometimes I wonder if people read what they actually write? What you're saying is you want everyone to disconnect and no longer be part of the network effect we're currently under.... This thinking seems to have a few flaws. 1. You have to remain within the supposed 'bad' network effect to broadcast your message. If you leave and go do your IRL things, you won't be there to broadcast your message (maybe bots doing it for you?). 2. You expect said networks to carry your message. You: "Lets all go outside", X: "Your message has been deleted due to violations of community standards". 3. You assume that being terminally online is not an addiction. That is just saying "Hey, lets go outside" has any effect on the vast majority of people that need to hear the message. Don't think of being on like smoking, it's not something you can just ban because it's part of life now. Think of it like eating, and how poorly that is going for the world at the moment with ever increasing obesity rates.

s1artibartfast 3y ago
Sticking with the tech analogy, People can and do switch networks all the time. You also don't have to wait for average user to become an early adopter.

AlwaysRock 3y ago

A lot of people want to spend more time with people irl but just dont know how/dont have access to like minded people irl. Part of the allure of the internet is that if I want to talk about Mass Effect tabletop roll playing, there are plenty of other people to talk about that with. If I want to have a conversation about the same thing in person... Maybe there is someone in my city who might want to talk about that? But it is so much more work to make that happen than online. I dont mind talking about sports/local stuff/mass media/small talk all that much but that is most of what I'm going to get from the folks I'm interacting with on a regular basis IRL.

everdrive 3y ago

This is like saying we can easily stop the obesity epidemic. The problem is pretty simple conceptually, but it's not going to be solved. The requirements for ignoring social media and practicing true impulse control lay outside of the bell curve of impulse control for much of humanity. People _could_ stop using social media, but they're not going to. Same reason why most people are fat. Yes, I know there are environmental factors, but all those do is squeeze a tighter box around the percentile of people who have the impulse control and resources to eat and exercise properly to maintain a good physique.

s1artibartfast 3y ago
However, global behavior does change, and not always for worse. It is usually just slow and people and culture adapt. The good news is that individuals don't have to wait on society. They can choose to be early adapters.