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I guess a good opportunity for someone to build a good alternative. Although it's hard to get it right because if you scale to 0 people will complain about late
by qaq 3y ago
I guess a good opportunity for someone to build a good alternative. Although it's hard to get it right because if you scale to 0 people will complain about latency and if you don't it's not really serverless.
- graphe 3y agoWhat alternative does someone need to make to compete with AWS?
- bradhe 3y agoI think the problem is that we're trying to take paradigms that are designed to be serverful (is that a word?) and shoe-horn them into working in a serverless way.
- nikita 3y ago(Neon CEO). It's possible and here is the recipe: https://twitter.com/nikitabase/status/1725394843285766463 https://twitter.com/nikitabase/status/1725394843285766463
- stuartjohnson12 3y agoAlways gotta watch what you say on Hacker News or the CEO of the company you're talking about might just arrive outta nowhere with the elbow drop of justice.
- qaq 3y agoIt helps but does not fully solve it if I need PG to have 512 GB of memory buffers under load to have reasonable latency starting from 0 and going through a number of VM migrations to finally get to properly sized VM with 512 GB of hot data in memory gonna cause a ton of latency.
- nikita 3y agoThe buffers will be cached in remote storage - so it will just work likely. In the future we are considering separating the buffer pool from compute and turning off compute doesn't drop the buffer cache. It's a research project but PolarDB did that for AliCloud.
- justinclift 3y ago"Remote buffers" sounds like it'd introduce a base level of latency anyway. Though computers are pretty fast these days (and RDMA exists), so if the pieces are in the same data centre and using good interconnects it's probably not going to make much of a practical difference.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- c0l0 3y ago... which does not refute the parent post's statement ;)
- zacksiri 3y agoThere is a good alternative, https://neon.tech https://neon.tech check them out. Really good bunch. Product is great and it's open-sourced https://github.com/neondatabase/neon https://github.com/neondatabase/neon
- tristan957 3y agoI'll note that the storage engine is open-source as well as any Postgres modifications, but our control plane is closed-source. I work at Neon.
- yencabulator 3y agoNeon is only scale-to-zero from the point of view of the tenants; whoever runs the software, must keep nodes running, including triple-replicated WAL storage.
- htrp 3y agoI mean if you scale to 0, you should expect cold start latency.
- qaq 3y agoWell yes and no if you had enough resources imaging something like Spanner but highly optimised for multi-tenancy. There will be higher latency because inactive tenant's data got purged from caches but it would be nowhere near the latency of spining up a postgres instance. You could even have a smart stats layer that tracks usage and keeps some minimal amount of inactive tenants data in memory to minimize latency.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- pandastronaut 3y agoCorporate customers that runs AWS, GCP or Azure at not looking for alternative outside of their cloud providers. Most solution architecture are designed with the assumption that all your ressources will be inside the same vnet or subnet, in a given cloud provider. And I am not talking about any egress fees yet.
- bob1029 3y agoSQL Server on Azure has an auto pause feature. All of our QA and dev instances use this. Seems to work reasonably well for us.
- andrenotgiant 3y agoDo they auto-wake when you query them? How long does auto-wake take?
- bob1029 3y agoYes - takes about 10-30 seconds in my experience.