4 ms·

Barely working in 1 case in a 1000 is hardly a good track record, plus the border is about to reopen again in 4 days because appeasing the UN is more important

Barely working in 1 case in a 1000 is hardly a good track record, plus the border is about to reopen again in 4 days because appeasing the UN is more important than national safety

hef19898 3y ago
You do know, that a simple border closure wouldn't do anything anything against a Russian invasion?
- lupusreal 3y ago
  Being a member of NATO is Finland's most important safety measure against that. And what are you even talking about, he didn't suggest that closing the border was necessary to prevent a military invasion. The national security threat it addresses is an unregulated influx of migrants handpicked by Russia to cause trouble for Finnish society, to punish Finland for joining NATO. But I guess now you're going to act shocked and offended that anybody could think these migrants could be a problem for Finland. No doubt they're truly a blessing, Finland should be happy to have them, and Russia is actually inadvertently doing Finland a favor, right?
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Only Sith deal in extremes, there is quite a large field between seeing immigrants as a blessing and seeing them as a national security risk. People holding the latter opinion usually come from a certain political leaning so, one that sees democracy as a tool to gain power for themselves and nothing else.
    - slipandafall 3y ago
      How do you they didn't provide a mix of families and felons and are banking on your exact opinion (my political opponents will use this to gain power) as the actual end goal? To me it seems like a strategy of stoking internal conflicts with actions to small to qualify as a declaration of war.
      - waihtis 3y ago
        The poster you're replying to is an idiot and you should disregard them; this is exactly the risk Finland is trying to mitigate. Wagner for instance has been very actively recruiting in Africa and this is a golden opportunity to sneak in military personnel of the correct ethnicity under the guise of refugees.
        slipandafall 3y ago
        I'd assume more of a concern troll type but you never know, there's more gullible/naive people that need things laid out in plain terms. Not necessarily knocking the person I was originally replying to, but don't forget half the population is dumber than the average. If we have to tell people not to eat laundry detergent than I can understand some people being not grasping military strategy or geopolitics. Didn't know about that happening in Africa but doesn't surprise me, do you know of anything else like that happening in Southeast Asia? Might find myself in that area and would like to know what to look out for besides vodka and people yelling "cyka blyat"
        waihtis 3y ago
        I don't think it's a hugely strategic location for them right now; closest is India, to a degree, as I understand they use a lot of Russian tech as part of their defense - but SEA seems to be a fading / non-acute geopolitical area for Russia
    - lupusreal 3y ago
      I must charitably assume that neither of us is a redditor, so kindly spare me the pop-culture meme cringe. The fact of the matter that Russia is delivering these migrants to the Finnish border to undermine the resolve of the Finnish people to resist Russian aggression. It is an overt act of fifth generation warfare and as such it is a plain threat to Finnish national security. Secondly, the majority of Finnish people support addressing this threat by closing their border to these migrants, so that is the democratic course of action. To oppose this is antidemocratic, and frankly, in the service of Russia's belligerent interests.
      - hef19898 3y ago
        One could also say, that Finlands refusal to take the refugees in, and the EUs failure to come up with a slotion for migration ans refugees that doesn't involve letting people drown for ten years, enable Russia to use refugees. Hence, it isn't Russia posing a national security threat, it is Finland's and the EU's policies towards refugees that pose one.
        lupusreal 3y ago
        No, it's Russia overtly attacking Finnish society. Even if Finland welcomed as many migrants as their country could handle, Russia would ship in any more. The only winning move is for Finland to close their borders. The other guys in this conversation are calling you an idiot or a concern troll. I don't know if that's what's going on here but your unwillingness to concede that Finland has a right to defend itself from Russian border bullshit really does make me wonder. Finland wasn't in NATO throughout the cold war, only recently did they join. Why do you think that is? The Russian threat is real and needs to be taken seriously. Russia is sending those migrants specifically to disrupt Finnish society. For you to pretend otherwise is absurd.
        hef19898 3y ago
        Never would I oppose someones right to defence, I give the right to Russia, Israel, NATO, Palestinians, you name it. And I explicitly calles out the EUs failure to come up with a workable plan how to handle refugees across all 27, and formerly 28, member states since 2014 (!). Because that plays a big role by allowing other nations to weaponize refugees, either as some war tactic or to gain political and financial favors. At the core of that failures of EU policies lies something deeply human so: Xenophobia and fear of the unknown and different. In ky opinion so, we owe it to ourselves to not allow those fears define our actions and policies, especially if we give our adversaries angles of attack by doing so. Besides Russia, we had Turkey and Tunesia using refugees to extract concessions and money from the EU using the same mechanism. One would assume people have learned back then to allow others to extort them using their own fears, but I know that this is propably impossible. Since nobody who knows me ever called me stupid (I have been called a lot of other things so), I am inclined taking it as a compliment considering whom this insult is coming from.
- waihtis 3y ago
  Pretty aware, given I am an active reservist and legally bound to protect said border with lethal measures if it comes to it
  - hef19898 3y ago
    So, you see migrants as a threat to national security. On par with a Russian invasion? Just asking, because shooting at unarmed people at the border is something people are discussing at the moment, something I cannot put my disgust for in words.
    - waihtis 3y ago
      Nice attempted bait and switch, but I don't engage with pathetic trolls like you.
doikor 3y ago
> plus the border is about to reopen again in 4 days Except the PM said we need "more actions on the border" which pretty much means continuing keeping it closed. Same from other leaks in the government according to Iltalehti. https://yle.fi/a/74-20068749 https://yle.fi/a/74-20068749 https://www.iltalehti.fi/politiikka/a/12941635-5b60-4383-9684-f9a269ec65f7 https://www.iltalehti.fi/politiikka/a/12941635-5b60-4383-968...

Barely working in 1 case in a 1000 is hardly a good track record, plus the border is about to reopen again in 4 days because appeasing the UN is more important than national safety

hef19898 3y ago

You do know, that a simple border closure wouldn't do anything anything against a Russian invasion?

lupusreal 3y ago
Being a member of NATO is Finland's most important safety measure against that. And what are you even talking about, he didn't suggest that closing the border was necessary to prevent a military invasion. The national security threat it addresses is an unregulated influx of migrants handpicked by Russia to cause trouble for Finnish society, to punish Finland for joining NATO. But I guess now you're going to act shocked and offended that anybody could think these migrants could be a problem for Finland. No doubt they're truly a blessing, Finland should be happy to have them, and Russia is actually inadvertently doing Finland a favor, right?
- hef19898 3y ago
  Only Sith deal in extremes, there is quite a large field between seeing immigrants as a blessing and seeing them as a national security risk. People holding the latter opinion usually come from a certain political leaning so, one that sees democracy as a tool to gain power for themselves and nothing else.
  - slipandafall 3y ago
    How do you they didn't provide a mix of families and felons and are banking on your exact opinion (my political opponents will use this to gain power) as the actual end goal? To me it seems like a strategy of stoking internal conflicts with actions to small to qualify as a declaration of war.
    - waihtis 3y ago
      The poster you're replying to is an idiot and you should disregard them; this is exactly the risk Finland is trying to mitigate. Wagner for instance has been very actively recruiting in Africa and this is a golden opportunity to sneak in military personnel of the correct ethnicity under the guise of refugees.
      - slipandafall 3y ago
        I'd assume more of a concern troll type but you never know, there's more gullible/naive people that need things laid out in plain terms. Not necessarily knocking the person I was originally replying to, but don't forget half the population is dumber than the average. If we have to tell people not to eat laundry detergent than I can understand some people being not grasping military strategy or geopolitics. Didn't know about that happening in Africa but doesn't surprise me, do you know of anything else like that happening in Southeast Asia? Might find myself in that area and would like to know what to look out for besides vodka and people yelling "cyka blyat"
        waihtis 3y ago
        I don't think it's a hugely strategic location for them right now; closest is India, to a degree, as I understand they use a lot of Russian tech as part of their defense - but SEA seems to be a fading / non-acute geopolitical area for Russia
  - lupusreal 3y ago
    I must charitably assume that neither of us is a redditor, so kindly spare me the pop-culture meme cringe. The fact of the matter that Russia is delivering these migrants to the Finnish border to undermine the resolve of the Finnish people to resist Russian aggression. It is an overt act of fifth generation warfare and as such it is a plain threat to Finnish national security. Secondly, the majority of Finnish people support addressing this threat by closing their border to these migrants, so that is the democratic course of action. To oppose this is antidemocratic, and frankly, in the service of Russia's belligerent interests.
    - hef19898 3y ago
      One could also say, that Finlands refusal to take the refugees in, and the EUs failure to come up with a slotion for migration ans refugees that doesn't involve letting people drown for ten years, enable Russia to use refugees. Hence, it isn't Russia posing a national security threat, it is Finland's and the EU's policies towards refugees that pose one.
      - lupusreal 3y ago
        No, it's Russia overtly attacking Finnish society. Even if Finland welcomed as many migrants as their country could handle, Russia would ship in any more. The only winning move is for Finland to close their borders. The other guys in this conversation are calling you an idiot or a concern troll. I don't know if that's what's going on here but your unwillingness to concede that Finland has a right to defend itself from Russian border bullshit really does make me wonder. Finland wasn't in NATO throughout the cold war, only recently did they join. Why do you think that is? The Russian threat is real and needs to be taken seriously. Russia is sending those migrants specifically to disrupt Finnish society. For you to pretend otherwise is absurd.
        hef19898 3y ago
        Never would I oppose someones right to defence, I give the right to Russia, Israel, NATO, Palestinians, you name it. And I explicitly calles out the EUs failure to come up with a workable plan how to handle refugees across all 27, and formerly 28, member states since 2014 (!). Because that plays a big role by allowing other nations to weaponize refugees, either as some war tactic or to gain political and financial favors. At the core of that failures of EU policies lies something deeply human so: Xenophobia and fear of the unknown and different. In ky opinion so, we owe it to ourselves to not allow those fears define our actions and policies, especially if we give our adversaries angles of attack by doing so. Besides Russia, we had Turkey and Tunesia using refugees to extract concessions and money from the EU using the same mechanism. One would assume people have learned back then to allow others to extort them using their own fears, but I know that this is propably impossible. Since nobody who knows me ever called me stupid (I have been called a lot of other things so), I am inclined taking it as a compliment considering whom this insult is coming from.
waihtis 3y ago
Pretty aware, given I am an active reservist and legally bound to protect said border with lethal measures if it comes to it
- hef19898 3y ago
  So, you see migrants as a threat to national security. On par with a Russian invasion? Just asking, because shooting at unarmed people at the border is something people are discussing at the moment, something I cannot put my disgust for in words.
  - waihtis 3y ago
    Nice attempted bait and switch, but I don't engage with pathetic trolls like you.

doikor 3y ago

> plus the border is about to reopen again in 4 days Except the PM said we need "more actions on the border" which pretty much means continuing keeping it closed. Same from other leaks in the government according to Iltalehti. https://yle.fi/a/74-20068749 https://yle.fi/a/74-20068749 https://www.iltalehti.fi/politiikka/a/12941635-5b60-4383-9684-f9a269ec65f7 https://www.iltalehti.fi/politiikka/a/12941635-5b60-4383-968...