4 ms·

What would be "well managed finances"? The objective is to improve the living, not how you manage the money. At all points in history most of people were tryin

by vladms 3y ago

What would be "well managed finances"? The objective is to improve the living, not how you manage the money. At all points in history most of people were trying to do "things at the expense of someone else" (colonialism, feudalism, etc.). Borrowing and not repaying is one of the most reasonable ways to do that - I think it's a clear improvement from killing/enslaving people, so I think it's an improvement.

inglor_cz 3y ago
The objective is to improve the living without worsening it in the long run. Andreas Papandreu, the king of Greek debt, is long dead, but debt that he ran up is still saddling the young Greek generation. The artificial living standard growth which resulted from his reckless borrowing helped him getting reelected several times, but the guy died in 1996 and now people who even weren't alive back then are carrying the burden of his electoral success that was bought by unsustainable spending. One of the insidious properties of national debt is that it comes at cost of people who aren't born yet. They are in no way represented in the democratic process, but they shouldn't be ignored either. We understood so much at least with regard to environment (albeit the implementation is far from perfect), we should do the same with regard to finances. Compared to death and outright enslavement, bankruptcy is better, but it is a choice between Black Death and some treatable cancer. We should strive for better.
- leshow 3y ago
  You mention bankruptcy, it should be noted that Greece was loaded up with debt it could never hope to pay back to private French and German banks, and it was not allowed to declare itself bankrupt and restructure. Instead, they kept "extending and pretending" rather than restructure the debt. Some economists have called it a modern form of debtors prison. The Greeks also had no control over monetary policy as a result of being part of the EU currency union so they were essentially at the mercy of the banks and the EU leadership.

by vladms 3y ago

inglor_cz 3y ago

The objective is to improve the living without worsening it in the long run. Andreas Papandreu, the king of Greek debt, is long dead, but debt that he ran up is still saddling the young Greek generation. The artificial living standard growth which resulted from his reckless borrowing helped him getting reelected several times, but the guy died in 1996 and now people who even weren't alive back then are carrying the burden of his electoral success that was bought by unsustainable spending. One of the insidious properties of national debt is that it comes at cost of people who aren't born yet. They are in no way represented in the democratic process, but they shouldn't be ignored either. We understood so much at least with regard to environment (albeit the implementation is far from perfect), we should do the same with regard to finances. Compared to death and outright enslavement, bankruptcy is better, but it is a choice between Black Death and some treatable cancer. We should strive for better.

leshow 3y ago
You mention bankruptcy, it should be noted that Greece was loaded up with debt it could never hope to pay back to private French and German banks, and it was not allowed to declare itself bankrupt and restructure. Instead, they kept "extending and pretending" rather than restructure the debt. Some economists have called it a modern form of debtors prison. The Greeks also had no control over monetary policy as a result of being part of the EU currency union so they were essentially at the mercy of the banks and the EU leadership.