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In middle of this it's obscene how the media neglects to mention who did most of the actual investigative journalism: https://www.private-eye.co.uk/ https://www

In middle of this it's obscene how the media neglects to mention who did most of the actual investigative journalism: https://www.private-eye.co.uk/ https://www.private-eye.co.uk/ -- for years on end, whilst the issue was ignored by the rest of the press. They all now jump in on it and elide the years of work put in by the PE. This is a common tactic in media outlets, esp. here, for the major sources to try to "own" issues with nearly zero work put in on them.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ChrisKnott 3y ago
I think that Computer Weekly were at the forefront of it
- ss64 3y ago
  But behind a paywall, so few people would have read it.
- hermitcrab 3y ago
  IIRC they sat on the story for a year before publishing, understandably worried about the blowback.
- mjburgess 3y ago
  There were lots including, iirc, https://www.theregister.com/ https://www.theregister.com/
drumhead 3y ago
I learnt about the story from Private Eye, they'd been following it for years, there were other sources as well though, but none of them were the national press or the BBC or ITV. This story wasnt glamourous for them and they only swooped in when well after the court cases when it looked like there would be political dimension. Its sad that proper investigative journalism is only found in the smaller publications these days.
- hermitcrab 3y ago
  >none of them were the national press or the BBC or ITV There was a BBC Panoram program in 2015: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4961332/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4961332/
- toyg 3y ago
  > they only swooped in when [...] it looked like there would be political dimension. I'll tell you more: it's only being pushed now, after the tv production, because it tangentially involves the two leaders of the opposition.
  - pjc50 3y ago
    In what way?
    - toyg 3y ago
      Keir Starmer was head of the Crown Prosecution Service in those years. Some (but not all) prosecutions were likely picked up and carried out by the CPS. How much the head of the institution is (or should be) supposed to intervene / interfere in specific issues like this, though, is very debatable. Ed Davey, more damningly, was a minister with responsibility for postal matters at the time the scandal was really breaking. He basically made no effort to help the victims, and just parroted the Post Office line. He now says he was lied to "on a massive scale" which, as a line of defence, is a bit weak. Tbh, the LibDem record, in that government, is pretty bad anyway; simply reminding people of that "Coalition" government is probably enough to blow a few holes in their electoral boats.
countrymile 3y ago
this sums up the government response (it's a parody, a very good parody...): https://twitter.com/RosieisaHolt/status/1744711394405044569 https://twitter.com/RosieisaHolt/status/1744711394405044569
drcongo 3y ago
Private Eye deserve huge credit for their doggedness - they kept at it despite it not getting picked up by any major newspaper beyond a two paragraph mention buried deep inside. Let's not write Nick Wallis out of this though, his Radio 4 series was instrumental in bringing it wider attention.
pipes 3y ago
Ian hislop mentioned yesterday that computer weekly ran it in 2009. He implied private eye picked it up after that. I've been reading about probably once every two years in the guardian. The thing that is so upsetting about all of this is that it's been pretty much ignored by government since 2009, the post office systematically lied and covered this up while knowing it was destroying innocent people. And the only reason they got traction was due to a docu drama last week. I don't normally feel like this, but I really hope people from the post office go to prison and lose their pensions over this. They deserve worse.
- razakel 3y ago
  Yeah, this is a huge ongoing scandal, and you'd only know about it if you were in tech or a politics nerd. 750 victims, including bankruptcies, prison sentences and suicides, and just one week after a TV drama something is actually being done about it. (That it can be used to attack Starmer and Davey is, I'm sure, unrelated.) Heads need to roll over this. Can you believe the woman responsible nearly became a bishop?
  - pjc50 3y ago
    > Can you believe the woman responsible nearly became a bishop? Well, yes? Have you seen the kinds of people elevated to the House of Lords lately? These institutions are now profoundly corrupt.
- TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
  The cover-up is at least as dangerous as the original incompetence. It was a heavy-handed, conscious, legally aggressive cover-up. The people responsible knew exactly what was happening, and they were more than happy for the blame to fall on innocent sub-postmasters. Horizon cost £2.4bn and was apparently developed by a team of eight, three of whom were described by the team lead as "incompetent." Fujitsu also screwed up an IT system for the NHS. £10bn was wasted on "the biggest IT failure ever seen." But Fujitsu still keep getting government contracts. Which is an even bigger scandal. There's a real stench of corruption around these deals, and of government procurement in general in the UK. See also HS2, PPE procurement, Test and Trace, and others.
di4na 3y ago
I recommend reading https://pressgazette.co.uk/news/post-office-horizon-it-scandal-journalists/ https://pressgazette.co.uk/news/post-office-horizon-it-scand... Private Eye definitely did a lot of work, but they were not the only ones, and multiple freelancers and journalists worked on it "in the shadows" for years. The Post Office tactics of calling editors to make threats and play down the stories were also quite influential.
leg100 3y ago
It wasn't ignored by the rest of the press. Private eye was one of many outlets, an important one granted, but the story was repeatedly reported on and investigated over the years by the local papers, Computer Weekly, TheRegister, the BBC, ITV, The Guardian, etc. Indeed Nick Wallis, an independent journalist, has covered it very closely for a very long time (including a special in an issue of PE): https://www.postofficescandal.uk/ https://www.postofficescandal.uk/ The scandal has hit the headlines many, many times across all the outlets, particularly in 2019-21 with the litigation and appeal cases. It was the subject of an episode of BBC Panorama in 2015 (fronted by Nick Wallis). But it all comes to nought. The victims are still out of pocket and still have criminal prosecutions. If the media are to blame, then so is the judiciary, and so is the government, who have had it in their power to provide financial redress. And of course the Post Office and Fujitsu are the culprits.
- TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
  Apparently this all changed because of a docudrama. By some mysterious media magic this made it a real issue in a way that plain old journalism hadn't. There is talk of legislation to quash all of the convictions, which is nice, but it's unlikely most sub-postmasters will see any real compensation. And the people who made a fortune off this will almost certainly keep it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ChrisKnott 3y ago

I think that Computer Weekly were at the forefront of it

ss64 3y ago
But behind a paywall, so few people would have read it.
hermitcrab 3y ago
IIRC they sat on the story for a year before publishing, understandably worried about the blowback.
mjburgess 3y ago
There were lots including, iirc, https://www.theregister.com/ https://www.theregister.com/

drumhead 3y ago

I learnt about the story from Private Eye, they'd been following it for years, there were other sources as well though, but none of them were the national press or the BBC or ITV. This story wasnt glamourous for them and they only swooped in when well after the court cases when it looked like there would be political dimension. Its sad that proper investigative journalism is only found in the smaller publications these days.

hermitcrab 3y ago
>none of them were the national press or the BBC or ITV There was a BBC Panoram program in 2015: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4961332/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4961332/
toyg 3y ago
> they only swooped in when [...] it looked like there would be political dimension. I'll tell you more: it's only being pushed now, after the tv production, because it tangentially involves the two leaders of the opposition.
- pjc50 3y ago
  In what way?
  - toyg 3y ago
    Keir Starmer was head of the Crown Prosecution Service in those years. Some (but not all) prosecutions were likely picked up and carried out by the CPS. How much the head of the institution is (or should be) supposed to intervene / interfere in specific issues like this, though, is very debatable. Ed Davey, more damningly, was a minister with responsibility for postal matters at the time the scandal was really breaking. He basically made no effort to help the victims, and just parroted the Post Office line. He now says he was lied to "on a massive scale" which, as a line of defence, is a bit weak. Tbh, the LibDem record, in that government, is pretty bad anyway; simply reminding people of that "Coalition" government is probably enough to blow a few holes in their electoral boats.

countrymile 3y ago

this sums up the government response (it's a parody, a very good parody...): https://twitter.com/RosieisaHolt/status/1744711394405044569 https://twitter.com/RosieisaHolt/status/1744711394405044569

drcongo 3y ago

Private Eye deserve huge credit for their doggedness - they kept at it despite it not getting picked up by any major newspaper beyond a two paragraph mention buried deep inside. Let's not write Nick Wallis out of this though, his Radio 4 series was instrumental in bringing it wider attention.

pipes 3y ago

Ian hislop mentioned yesterday that computer weekly ran it in 2009. He implied private eye picked it up after that. I've been reading about probably once every two years in the guardian. The thing that is so upsetting about all of this is that it's been pretty much ignored by government since 2009, the post office systematically lied and covered this up while knowing it was destroying innocent people. And the only reason they got traction was due to a docu drama last week. I don't normally feel like this, but I really hope people from the post office go to prison and lose their pensions over this. They deserve worse.

razakel 3y ago
Yeah, this is a huge ongoing scandal, and you'd only know about it if you were in tech or a politics nerd. 750 victims, including bankruptcies, prison sentences and suicides, and just one week after a TV drama something is actually being done about it. (That it can be used to attack Starmer and Davey is, I'm sure, unrelated.) Heads need to roll over this. Can you believe the woman responsible nearly became a bishop?
- pjc50 3y ago
  > Can you believe the woman responsible nearly became a bishop? Well, yes? Have you seen the kinds of people elevated to the House of Lords lately? These institutions are now profoundly corrupt.
TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
The cover-up is at least as dangerous as the original incompetence. It was a heavy-handed, conscious, legally aggressive cover-up. The people responsible knew exactly what was happening, and they were more than happy for the blame to fall on innocent sub-postmasters. Horizon cost £2.4bn and was apparently developed by a team of eight, three of whom were described by the team lead as "incompetent." Fujitsu also screwed up an IT system for the NHS. £10bn was wasted on "the biggest IT failure ever seen." But Fujitsu still keep getting government contracts. Which is an even bigger scandal. There's a real stench of corruption around these deals, and of government procurement in general in the UK. See also HS2, PPE procurement, Test and Trace, and others.

di4na 3y ago

I recommend reading https://pressgazette.co.uk/news/post-office-horizon-it-scandal-journalists/ https://pressgazette.co.uk/news/post-office-horizon-it-scand... Private Eye definitely did a lot of work, but they were not the only ones, and multiple freelancers and journalists worked on it "in the shadows" for years. The Post Office tactics of calling editors to make threats and play down the stories were also quite influential.

leg100 3y ago

It wasn't ignored by the rest of the press. Private eye was one of many outlets, an important one granted, but the story was repeatedly reported on and investigated over the years by the local papers, Computer Weekly, TheRegister, the BBC, ITV, The Guardian, etc. Indeed Nick Wallis, an independent journalist, has covered it very closely for a very long time (including a special in an issue of PE): https://www.postofficescandal.uk/ https://www.postofficescandal.uk/ The scandal has hit the headlines many, many times across all the outlets, particularly in 2019-21 with the litigation and appeal cases. It was the subject of an episode of BBC Panorama in 2015 (fronted by Nick Wallis). But it all comes to nought. The victims are still out of pocket and still have criminal prosecutions. If the media are to blame, then so is the judiciary, and so is the government, who have had it in their power to provide financial redress. And of course the Post Office and Fujitsu are the culprits.

TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
Apparently this all changed because of a docudrama. By some mysterious media magic this made it a real issue in a way that plain old journalism hadn't. There is talk of legislation to quash all of the convictions, which is nice, but it's unlikely most sub-postmasters will see any real compensation. And the people who made a fortune off this will almost certainly keep it.