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As a thought, faith has been lost in institutions, and society in general, and rightly so in many respects. But I think instead of feeling agency to fix the iss

by ehnto 3y ago

As a thought, faith has been lost in institutions, and society in general, and rightly so in many respects. But I think instead of feeling agency to fix the issues, people feel they have to either capitulate, break the system or work outside it entirely. I feel we forget, or don't teach, the fact that we built all of this, and for the purpose of our own benefit. Society and institutions have become antagonists in people's minds, rather than the enabler and provider that it is supposed to be.

wolverine876 3y ago
> faith has been lost in institutions, and society in general, and rightly so in many respects. But I think instead of feeling agency to fix the issues, people feel they have to either capitulate, break the system or work outside it entirely. Yes, but it's bizarre to feel so hopeless. In this example, it worked (and we worked) far better for decades until a few years ago.
- roenxi 3y ago
  Broadly speaking, it is illegal to fix things. If there is a problem that could be fixed with industrial processes, it is a common requirement that any attempt cause no pollution and be perfectly safe. If there is a problem in the medical system any attempt at a solution must be proven to be safe and effective. If there is a social problem, any scandal will have the government move in to license and regulate it. Something like 2 or 3 accidents ended the entire nuclear industry through safety regulation even though we then sailed into an energy crisis that has so far been much worse than a dozen nuclear disasters. It is obvious why the system is tending in this direction, but the problem is that society is trying to achieve impossible goals. So it isn't succeeding and it has disarmed people of the agency to make improvements. My catchphrase is "everything China does to get ahead is illegal in the west". And that isn't a knock against Chinese methods. They have noticeably bettered their society in a way that the Anglosphere has not.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    Yet we have been doing it successfully for generations. And then people started making up theories to explain what clearly isn't true - that we somehow can't do anything. You're just not doing anything (if you actually believe this stuff). We know exactly what to do; let's get going. > They have noticeably bettered their society in a way that the Anglosphere has not. In what way is it better to live in China? The economy there grew faster for awhile, which is the norm for successfully developing economies, but wealth and standard of living aren't at the level of the West. Why are so many in China moving to the Anglosphere these days? (I'm not wishing anything but the best for people in China, who should have freedom, self-determination, and continue to grow in prosperity.)
    - roenxi 3y ago
      > We know exactly what to do; let's get going. I'm not sure you're engaging with the word "illegal". If someone did what they've been successfully doing for generations they will be fined, arrested, have their business dissolved or otherwise made to change their ways. > In what way is it better to live in China? I usually refer to https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-energy-use https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-energy-use - their per-capita energy use is ahead of the UK and the trends on the chart favour China. I'd expect life in China to be better than in the UK in the next few decades if those trends don't do something radical (and when it comes to democracies vs. authoritarians, anything is possible). But more importantly, the trends massively favour China. What they are doing is building a place that would be nice to live. The Anglosphere is letting a nice place to live slowly decay because we aren't willling to maintain it. For all the bleating about how we have to do more for poor people, we've made no attempt to double per capita energy use in the way China has; there have been explicit policies trying to reduce it. Largely, I point out, because the obvious way to get more energy from where we are is continuous development of Nuclear power and it has been banned in practice. > Why are so many in China moving to the Anglosphere these days? I dunno, are they? I'm sure they'd like to, the US is still a long way ahead of where China is.

by ehnto 3y ago

wolverine876 3y ago

> faith has been lost in institutions, and society in general, and rightly so in many respects. But I think instead of feeling agency to fix the issues, people feel they have to either capitulate, break the system or work outside it entirely. Yes, but it's bizarre to feel so hopeless. In this example, it worked (and we worked) far better for decades until a few years ago.

roenxi 3y ago
Broadly speaking, it is illegal to fix things. If there is a problem that could be fixed with industrial processes, it is a common requirement that any attempt cause no pollution and be perfectly safe. If there is a problem in the medical system any attempt at a solution must be proven to be safe and effective. If there is a social problem, any scandal will have the government move in to license and regulate it. Something like 2 or 3 accidents ended the entire nuclear industry through safety regulation even though we then sailed into an energy crisis that has so far been much worse than a dozen nuclear disasters. It is obvious why the system is tending in this direction, but the problem is that society is trying to achieve impossible goals. So it isn't succeeding and it has disarmed people of the agency to make improvements. My catchphrase is "everything China does to get ahead is illegal in the west". And that isn't a knock against Chinese methods. They have noticeably bettered their society in a way that the Anglosphere has not.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  Yet we have been doing it successfully for generations. And then people started making up theories to explain what clearly isn't true - that we somehow can't do anything. You're just not doing anything (if you actually believe this stuff). We know exactly what to do; let's get going. > They have noticeably bettered their society in a way that the Anglosphere has not. In what way is it better to live in China? The economy there grew faster for awhile, which is the norm for successfully developing economies, but wealth and standard of living aren't at the level of the West. Why are so many in China moving to the Anglosphere these days? (I'm not wishing anything but the best for people in China, who should have freedom, self-determination, and continue to grow in prosperity.)
  - roenxi 3y ago
    > We know exactly what to do; let's get going. I'm not sure you're engaging with the word "illegal". If someone did what they've been successfully doing for generations they will be fined, arrested, have their business dissolved or otherwise made to change their ways. > In what way is it better to live in China? I usually refer to https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-energy-use https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-energy-use - their per-capita energy use is ahead of the UK and the trends on the chart favour China. I'd expect life in China to be better than in the UK in the next few decades if those trends don't do something radical (and when it comes to democracies vs. authoritarians, anything is possible). But more importantly, the trends massively favour China. What they are doing is building a place that would be nice to live. The Anglosphere is letting a nice place to live slowly decay because we aren't willling to maintain it. For all the bleating about how we have to do more for poor people, we've made no attempt to double per capita energy use in the way China has; there have been explicit policies trying to reduce it. Largely, I point out, because the obvious way to get more energy from where we are is continuous development of Nuclear power and it has been banned in practice. > Why are so many in China moving to the Anglosphere these days? I dunno, are they? I'm sure they'd like to, the US is still a long way ahead of where China is.