4 ms·

Nobody except a very small minority of techno-nerds (and most of those not teenagers) was alawys online until about 15 years ago, the advent of the smartphone.

by brazzy 3y ago

Nobody except a very small minority of techno-nerds (and most of those not teenagers) was alawys online until about 15 years ago, the advent of the smartphone. It took easily another 5 years before a significant amount of teenagers had them, especially outside the richest countries. But of course it's not the technical capability that's the problem, it's the always-online culture, the network effects, the constant doomscrolling through algorithm-optimized feeds, the instant notification when someone replies to your kneejerk vitrolic comment with even more vitrol. And then again, that culture was not possible without the technical capabilities and widespread adoption of them. Nobody was motivated to build a site or app optimized for doomscrolling until there were enough eyeballs and advertising dollars to capture.

JohnMakin 3y ago
Then why does this trend disproportionately affect girls? There is nothing particular special about “onlineness” that should affect them particularly worse than boys, but plenty of very real evidence that shows social media sites like IG are very harmful to girls (and meta knows it). There are plenty of millennials that have been terminally online since at least their early teens and weren’t showing this same trend. I’m saying there’s nothing inherent about “online-ness” that should warrant mass levels of depression like this.
- naasking 3y ago
  > There is nothing particular special about “onlineness” that should affect them particularly worse than boys Females are on average far more social than males. If there's a dose-response effect social media time and mental health, then we should plausibly expect girls to be affected more.
- AlexandrB 3y ago
  I don't know about other social media, but IG combines a culture of posting visual content with heavy use of face/body filters. If you're already feeling self-conscious about your body, this is a recipe for body image issues and self-hate. Girls were facing the same issue from advertising and the fashion industry in the pre-internet era, but now it's beamed directly to everyone's phone.
- everdrive 3y ago
  There are well-founded stereotypes regarding women's need for gossip. Men compete in other ways. It's women who are most addicted to social media, instagram, etc.
- AlecSchueler 3y ago
  Why do you assert that onlineness doesn't affect women disproportionately? Women face all sorts of abuse and minimization online. I've heard of many women using male sounding names online in order to be taken seriously or avoid harassment. The general advice on subreddits dominated by women is to turn off personaal messaging to avoid the inevitable rape threats. Take a look on Instagram and take a look at some musicians that are men and some that are women. The level of hatred directed towards women and the extra barriers they face will be very clear. You also have subreddits that glorify misogyny like WomenAreThings or MisogynyKink. You have others where guys steal pictures from girls' social medias and redistribute them with captions about rape fantasy or where they use AI to force their victims into sexual media. You look on YouTube and the algorithm wants to push misogynistic content aimed at disillusioned young boys and more and more of them are tuning in and blaming women for all their problems, asserting that feminism was a mistake. If you're on Instagram compare how many women have their profiles set to private than men. This is to avoid the constant harassment they'd otherwise face. I'm seeing more research every year that suggests women are actively self-censoring, silencing themselves or pretending to be men when online. Here's a few interesting bits of further reading. I've been told off in the past for sharing these things here because women's rights are politics and therefore against the guidelines of the site but I hope it's relevant enough to the discussion here: 1. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0894439319865518 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/089443931986551... 2. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/online-violence-against-women-chapter-5-5/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/online-violen... 3. https://www.womankind.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/breaking-the-silence-policy-briefing.pdf https://www.womankind.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/brea...
  - jstarfish 3y ago
    While all of that is true, nobody hates women like other women. Men are just way more conspicuous and aggressive about it. Women conceal their abuse through rhetoric and political games. Everyone is a girl, online. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37469575 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37469575
    - itishappy 3y ago

by brazzy 3y ago

JohnMakin 3y ago

Then why does this trend disproportionately affect girls? There is nothing particular special about “onlineness” that should affect them particularly worse than boys, but plenty of very real evidence that shows social media sites like IG are very harmful to girls (and meta knows it). There are plenty of millennials that have been terminally online since at least their early teens and weren’t showing this same trend. I’m saying there’s nothing inherent about “online-ness” that should warrant mass levels of depression like this.

naasking 3y ago
> There is nothing particular special about “onlineness” that should affect them particularly worse than boys Females are on average far more social than males. If there's a dose-response effect social media time and mental health, then we should plausibly expect girls to be affected more.
AlexandrB 3y ago
I don't know about other social media, but IG combines a culture of posting visual content with heavy use of face/body filters. If you're already feeling self-conscious about your body, this is a recipe for body image issues and self-hate. Girls were facing the same issue from advertising and the fashion industry in the pre-internet era, but now it's beamed directly to everyone's phone.
everdrive 3y ago
There are well-founded stereotypes regarding women's need for gossip. Men compete in other ways. It's women who are most addicted to social media, instagram, etc.
AlecSchueler 3y ago
Why do you assert that onlineness doesn't affect women disproportionately? Women face all sorts of abuse and minimization online. I've heard of many women using male sounding names online in order to be taken seriously or avoid harassment. The general advice on subreddits dominated by women is to turn off personaal messaging to avoid the inevitable rape threats. Take a look on Instagram and take a look at some musicians that are men and some that are women. The level of hatred directed towards women and the extra barriers they face will be very clear. You also have subreddits that glorify misogyny like WomenAreThings or MisogynyKink. You have others where guys steal pictures from girls' social medias and redistribute them with captions about rape fantasy or where they use AI to force their victims into sexual media. You look on YouTube and the algorithm wants to push misogynistic content aimed at disillusioned young boys and more and more of them are tuning in and blaming women for all their problems, asserting that feminism was a mistake. If you're on Instagram compare how many women have their profiles set to private than men. This is to avoid the constant harassment they'd otherwise face. I'm seeing more research every year that suggests women are actively self-censoring, silencing themselves or pretending to be men when online. Here's a few interesting bits of further reading. I've been told off in the past for sharing these things here because women's rights are politics and therefore against the guidelines of the site but I hope it's relevant enough to the discussion here: 1. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0894439319865518 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/089443931986551... 2. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/online-violence-against-women-chapter-5-5/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/online-violen... 3. https://www.womankind.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/breaking-the-silence-policy-briefing.pdf https://www.womankind.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/brea...
- jstarfish 3y ago
  While all of that is true, nobody hates women like other women. Men are just way more conspicuous and aggressive about it. Women conceal their abuse through rhetoric and political games. Everyone is a girl, online. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37469575 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37469575
  - itishappy 3y ago