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I’m guessing that you grossly underestimate the academic support for athletes. 1. Most athletes take fewer and easier classes during their season, or the main

by csa 3y ago

I’m guessing that you grossly underestimate the academic support for athletes. 1. Most athletes take fewer and easier classes during their season, or the main part of their season. Missing credit hours can be made up for during the summer, which sometimes have easier classes. 2. Many athletes take easier majors in general. 3. Athletes have access to free tutors. Sometimes these tutors help, sometimes they help a lot, sometimes they just do the work for the athlete. I imagine that the ethics line is adhered to a bit more frequently at places like Cal and Stanford, but sometimes it’s a blurry line. 4. Athletic departments and athletes know which majors and which professors are easy to deal with for things like travel and workload. Word gets around. Of all the things to worry about, the academic side for the athlete would be the least of my worries.

Animats 3y ago
> Word gets around. It's more organized than that. The Stanford Daily once uncovered the football team's official list of easy courses.[1] Stanford also has the Academic Athletic Resource Center, to help varsity athletes make it through Stanford.[2] "Student-athletes may avail themselves of 2 hours of tutoring per class per week for any reason." [1] https://stanforddaily.com/2011/03/09/1046687/ https://stanforddaily.com/2011/03/09/1046687/ [2] https://advising.stanford.edu/current-students/student-athletes https://advising.stanford.edu/current-students/student-athle...
disposition2 3y ago
Maybe OP, despite the article being about college football, was considering how the realignment might affect athletes in other sports? For college football, it’s only ~12 games a season and they typically are played at or near the weekend. But for many other sports, the schedule is heavier and played throughout the week. I believe, as maybe OP did, the college football realignment (along with its many other faults) will potentially more detrimental to the athletes in other sports.
rented_mule 3y ago
My nephew plays football at a university in a Power Five (now Power Four?) conference. So far, he's experienced much of what you called out. But, they have held him to a far higher academic standard than I expected. He went to junior college first. After his first year, his current university brought him to campus a few times for recruiting purposes, but they didn't end up making him an offer because of his grades. A year later, his grades were up, and he got an offer from that university. At this university, bad grades will cause you to be dropped from the team and lose your scholarship, no matter how big a star you are. They drill this into the players and make it clear that they owe it to their teammates to keep their grades up. I didn't expect that, and I assume it's far from universal at this level, but I'm glad to see it. It's also a great opportunity for my nephew. He and his parents don't have the resources for an education of this caliber (his parents are both teachers), but he is getting it because of football. And he's getting much more active support in that education (through things like the tutoring mentioned above). He'd love to play professionally. Now that he's the wise old age of 20, he understands how low the odds are, and he's making sure he gets an education that will lead to opportunities for a good non-athletic career. Not all of his teammates have that clarity, but he says a lot of them do. One of his teammates graduated before his football eligibility was used up, so he's now getting a master’s degree. You can argue that it's not fair that football players get so many more resources thrown at them. But at this level, they are a huge source of funding for the university. Through things I've heard from his coaches (I've been lucky enough to meet the head coach, the offensive coordinator, and a few others), my guess is that the university brings in somewhere in the neighborhood of $100M/year from football and spends something like 30% of that on football and support for the players. That 30% is seen as protecting the rest of the $100M (if the team doesn't do well, that money is at risk). These numbers are for a university that is not a perennial top 20 team, so I'm sure the numbers can be significantly higher for the top football programs.
- csa 3y ago
  > He'd love to play professionally. Now that he's the wise old age of 20, he understands how low the odds are Odds are low, but not zero, especially if he is at a power 5 school. I have a relative who was in the nfl until recently. Some (summarized) comments from him: - Focus on technique. There can be substantial differences in size, strength, and skill in college such that sloppy technique can often get the job done. Not so in the NFL. Good technique and good ability to be coached will an asset. - Focus on good technique in the weight room. This will both develop the right kind of strength and lower risk of injury. Good flexibility via stretching and yoga are also an important part of strength training. - Get nutrition right asap. This includes moderation of drinking and junk food. There will be people who can help with this. - Don’t settle for good enough. Most of the future NFL guys are so good that the opponent has to plan around them specifically. Be that thorn in the opposition’s side. > my guess is that the university brings in somewhere in the neighborhood of $100M/year from football and spends something like 30% of that on football and support for the players. That 30% is seen as protecting the rest of the $100M Yep. What many people don’t realize is that revenue from football and basketball fund or cover funding gaps for all of the other sports at the bigger schools. Not to mention that alumni donations and quality of applicants increase when the high profile teams do well. Simple example, the University of Alabama has seen a substantial increase in out-of-state applicants since Saban arrived. Best of luck to your nephew, and I hope he makes it to the NFL.
stavros 3y ago
> I’m guessing that you grossly underestimate the academic support for athletes. > 1. Most athletes take fewer and easier classes during their season This only makes sense if the goal of academia is to get students to pass tests, rather than to get them to learn.
NobodyNada 3y ago
While it's true that athletes get a lot of support (at least for money-making sports like football), that doesn't make it okay! Most college athletes aren't going to go pro, and so getting a rushed and watered-down education is not serving their best interests in their career beyond. Of course they're adults and how much they learn is up to them, but increasing the time and travel commitment of athletics greatly increases the pressure and need to rely on this "academic support", even more so than they do is today. Also...while the football players will probably be fine, the same cannot be said about all students. For example, marching band also requires heavy time commitments and lots of travel, but these students receive little funding and no academic support. Last year when my school's football team went to a bowl game, the team was of course flown out and had a great time while my friends on the marching band came back with horror stories. The school was supposed to handle all the travel arrangements, but they consistently cheaped out and forgot about important things like food -- the whole band was loaded up into a stuffy tour bus for 16 hours without a single meal. Or, consider less-funded athletic departments like the University of Oregon's beach volleyball team. UO is a top athletic school with a Nike sponsorship deal and a huge budget; the football team (in)famously wears brand new uniforms each week, whereas less-profitable sports are so badly underfunded that the school is under Title IX investigation for mistreatment of women athletes: https://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/2023/07/oregon-ducks-beach-volleyball-players-detail-disparate-treatment-that-experts-say-could-violate-title-ix.html https://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/2023/07/oregon-ducks-beach-... > The team practices and plays home games in a city park. The players, who do not receive athletic scholarships, have had to use a public restroom with no doors on the stalls. At times, they’ve driven hundreds of miles for games and stayed three or four to a room and had to share beds. These students' situations are going to get a LOT worse now that they're competing entirely against teams from the opposite side of the country.

by csa 3y ago

Animats 3y ago

> Word gets around. It's more organized than that. The Stanford Daily once uncovered the football team's official list of easy courses.[1] Stanford also has the Academic Athletic Resource Center, to help varsity athletes make it through Stanford.[2] "Student-athletes may avail themselves of 2 hours of tutoring per class per week for any reason." [1] https://stanforddaily.com/2011/03/09/1046687/ https://stanforddaily.com/2011/03/09/1046687/ [2] https://advising.stanford.edu/current-students/student-athletes https://advising.stanford.edu/current-students/student-athle...

disposition2 3y ago

Maybe OP, despite the article being about college football, was considering how the realignment might affect athletes in other sports? For college football, it’s only ~12 games a season and they typically are played at or near the weekend. But for many other sports, the schedule is heavier and played throughout the week. I believe, as maybe OP did, the college football realignment (along with its many other faults) will potentially more detrimental to the athletes in other sports.

rented_mule 3y ago

My nephew plays football at a university in a Power Five (now Power Four?) conference. So far, he's experienced much of what you called out. But, they have held him to a far higher academic standard than I expected. He went to junior college first. After his first year, his current university brought him to campus a few times for recruiting purposes, but they didn't end up making him an offer because of his grades. A year later, his grades were up, and he got an offer from that university. At this university, bad grades will cause you to be dropped from the team and lose your scholarship, no matter how big a star you are. They drill this into the players and make it clear that they owe it to their teammates to keep their grades up. I didn't expect that, and I assume it's far from universal at this level, but I'm glad to see it. It's also a great opportunity for my nephew. He and his parents don't have the resources for an education of this caliber (his parents are both teachers), but he is getting it because of football. And he's getting much more active support in that education (through things like the tutoring mentioned above). He'd love to play professionally. Now that he's the wise old age of 20, he understands how low the odds are, and he's making sure he gets an education that will lead to opportunities for a good non-athletic career. Not all of his teammates have that clarity, but he says a lot of them do. One of his teammates graduated before his football eligibility was used up, so he's now getting a master’s degree. You can argue that it's not fair that football players get so many more resources thrown at them. But at this level, they are a huge source of funding for the university. Through things I've heard from his coaches (I've been lucky enough to meet the head coach, the offensive coordinator, and a few others), my guess is that the university brings in somewhere in the neighborhood of $100M/year from football and spends something like 30% of that on football and support for the players. That 30% is seen as protecting the rest of the $100M (if the team doesn't do well, that money is at risk). These numbers are for a university that is not a perennial top 20 team, so I'm sure the numbers can be significantly higher for the top football programs.

csa 3y ago
> He'd love to play professionally. Now that he's the wise old age of 20, he understands how low the odds are Odds are low, but not zero, especially if he is at a power 5 school. I have a relative who was in the nfl until recently. Some (summarized) comments from him: - Focus on technique. There can be substantial differences in size, strength, and skill in college such that sloppy technique can often get the job done. Not so in the NFL. Good technique and good ability to be coached will an asset. - Focus on good technique in the weight room. This will both develop the right kind of strength and lower risk of injury. Good flexibility via stretching and yoga are also an important part of strength training. - Get nutrition right asap. This includes moderation of drinking and junk food. There will be people who can help with this. - Don’t settle for good enough. Most of the future NFL guys are so good that the opponent has to plan around them specifically. Be that thorn in the opposition’s side. > my guess is that the university brings in somewhere in the neighborhood of $100M/year from football and spends something like 30% of that on football and support for the players. That 30% is seen as protecting the rest of the $100M Yep. What many people don’t realize is that revenue from football and basketball fund or cover funding gaps for all of the other sports at the bigger schools. Not to mention that alumni donations and quality of applicants increase when the high profile teams do well. Simple example, the University of Alabama has seen a substantial increase in out-of-state applicants since Saban arrived. Best of luck to your nephew, and I hope he makes it to the NFL.

stavros 3y ago

> I’m guessing that you grossly underestimate the academic support for athletes. > 1. Most athletes take fewer and easier classes during their season This only makes sense if the goal of academia is to get students to pass tests, rather than to get them to learn.

NobodyNada 3y ago

While it's true that athletes get a lot of support (at least for money-making sports like football), that doesn't make it okay! Most college athletes aren't going to go pro, and so getting a rushed and watered-down education is not serving their best interests in their career beyond. Of course they're adults and how much they learn is up to them, but increasing the time and travel commitment of athletics greatly increases the pressure and need to rely on this "academic support", even more so than they do is today. Also...while the football players will probably be fine, the same cannot be said about all students. For example, marching band also requires heavy time commitments and lots of travel, but these students receive little funding and no academic support. Last year when my school's football team went to a bowl game, the team was of course flown out and had a great time while my friends on the marching band came back with horror stories. The school was supposed to handle all the travel arrangements, but they consistently cheaped out and forgot about important things like food -- the whole band was loaded up into a stuffy tour bus for 16 hours without a single meal. Or, consider less-funded athletic departments like the University of Oregon's beach volleyball team. UO is a top athletic school with a Nike sponsorship deal and a huge budget; the football team (in)famously wears brand new uniforms each week, whereas less-profitable sports are so badly underfunded that the school is under Title IX investigation for mistreatment of women athletes: https://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/2023/07/oregon-ducks-beach-volleyball-players-detail-disparate-treatment-that-experts-say-could-violate-title-ix.html https://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/2023/07/oregon-ducks-beach-... > The team practices and plays home games in a city park. The players, who do not receive athletic scholarships, have had to use a public restroom with no doors on the stalls. At times, they’ve driven hundreds of miles for games and stayed three or four to a room and had to share beds. These students' situations are going to get a LOT worse now that they're competing entirely against teams from the opposite side of the country.