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These are...weird criticisms. You basically seem to wish you were coding within a monopoly, for a single platform controlled by a single corporation. Perhaps Sw

These are...weird criticisms. You basically seem to wish you were coding within a monopoly, for a single platform controlled by a single corporation. Perhaps Swift is where you would like to be? JavaScript does incredibly well for the constraints it operates within. The fact that Node and Deno etc even exist is pretty remarkable given the primary purpose of JS. The fact we even have ES modules is in large part because the third party NPM worked so well. Things start out messy then they gain traction and get standardised. JS isn't a loose standard at all, it's incredibly well defined, and few of its original Netscape origins really remain. You have a bit of a point about TypeScript. It'd definitely be nicer if this was part of the language and didn't require so much third party tooling. It seems plausible that this too might happen in a few years. Perhaps browsers will gain first class support for it.

solardev 3y ago
> These are...weird criticisms. You basically seem to wish you were coding within a monopoly, for a single platform controlled by a single corporation. You know, I never really thought about it that way, but I think you're right! <lazy dev hat>That WOULD be nice! A standard way to do anything, no need for unnecessary reinventions of the wheel... progress would slow down a bit, sure, but that's OK, nobody can keep peace with this lightning-fast explosion anyway, and slow and steady is more sustainable than volatile bubbles everywhere anyway. I think I would enjoy working in such a system...</lazy hat off> <open source hat on>Unfortunately, that'd also mean a closed ecosystem and we probably wouldn't have had the amateur dev boom that HTML/JS/CSS and its visible source gave us. I hate the messiness of that ecosystem, but I can't deny that the openness gave a boatload more people opportunities than the closed platforms. Maybe that's just the price we have to pay =/ </hats away> > Perhaps Swift is where you would like to be? I never tried. Is it nice? As a user I find iOS quite obnoxious, but maybe developing for it is different...?
wvenable 3y ago
> You basically seem to wish you were coding within a monopoly, for a single platform controlled by a single corporation. Benevolent dictatorship has it's advantages. The JavaScript ecosystem is messy -- exactly why is up for debate and whether that's good, bad, or unimportant is also up for debate.
eitland 3y ago
Take it from someone who has made meaningful code in JS since 2005: - JS as a three week project is amazing - JS as a lingua franca for web is a disaster in the same league as null pointers. It is like if backend had decided to standardize on PHP early on (if you disagree, try to mention one thing except syntax that isn't as bad in JS as in PHP, and the syntax is actually a blessing in disguise, if JS had looked like PHP it wouldn't had become a standard) - The fact that people has made a very productive ecosystem on top of the collection of footguns that is Javascript is of course equally impressive if not more Please note that this post praises both the inventor of JS as well as the JS ecosystem. But that does not mean that Javascript is a good language.

solardev 3y ago

> These are...weird criticisms. You basically seem to wish you were coding within a monopoly, for a single platform controlled by a single corporation. You know, I never really thought about it that way, but I think you're right! <lazy dev hat>That WOULD be nice! A standard way to do anything, no need for unnecessary reinventions of the wheel... progress would slow down a bit, sure, but that's OK, nobody can keep peace with this lightning-fast explosion anyway, and slow and steady is more sustainable than volatile bubbles everywhere anyway. I think I would enjoy working in such a system...</lazy hat off> <open source hat on>Unfortunately, that'd also mean a closed ecosystem and we probably wouldn't have had the amateur dev boom that HTML/JS/CSS and its visible source gave us. I hate the messiness of that ecosystem, but I can't deny that the openness gave a boatload more people opportunities than the closed platforms. Maybe that's just the price we have to pay =/ </hats away> > Perhaps Swift is where you would like to be? I never tried. Is it nice? As a user I find iOS quite obnoxious, but maybe developing for it is different...?

wvenable 3y ago

> You basically seem to wish you were coding within a monopoly, for a single platform controlled by a single corporation. Benevolent dictatorship has it's advantages. The JavaScript ecosystem is messy -- exactly why is up for debate and whether that's good, bad, or unimportant is also up for debate.

eitland 3y ago

Take it from someone who has made meaningful code in JS since 2005: - JS as a three week project is amazing - JS as a lingua franca for web is a disaster in the same league as null pointers. It is like if backend had decided to standardize on PHP early on (if you disagree, try to mention one thing except syntax that isn't as bad in JS as in PHP, and the syntax is actually a blessing in disguise, if JS had looked like PHP it wouldn't had become a standard) - The fact that people has made a very productive ecosystem on top of the collection of footguns that is Javascript is of course equally impressive if not more Please note that this post praises both the inventor of JS as well as the JS ecosystem. But that does not mean that Javascript is a good language.