4 ms·

I'm a big fan of this genre of game, I have a small but growing steam collection of different ones. ( And some non-steam such as nandgame ). Turing complete is

by eterm 3y ago

I'm a big fan of this genre of game, I have a small but growing steam collection of different ones. ( And some non-steam such as nandgame ). Turing complete is one of the better ones, the simulation seems reliable and the missions, after a fair bit of early access re-jigging are reasonably well structured. However, the UI isn't always super smooth, and the lack of hand-holding means it's better for someone like me who's gone through a similar journey before in other simulators. If you're looking for something similar that does a better job at explaining the concepts then I'd recommend "Silicon Zeroes". The game as a whole feels even slightly less polished, but has a cute storyline and in my opinion does a better job at explaining each level and what it's trying to introduce, and does a much better job with problem solving issues related to "The Clock". If you don't actually enjoy the the electronics part so much and just enjoy the psuedo-assembly aspect, then I'd recommend TIS100 or Shenzhen I/O. If you prefer well-crafted puzzles then something like "Human Resource Machine" may be more your style. It's also worth noting this Turing Complete news post: https://steamcommunity.com/app/1444480/eventcomments/3806156352191923229 https://steamcommunity.com/app/1444480/eventcomments/3806156... After no updates for a year, there was a news post in August 2023 to say, "Sorry, there's a big new update coming soon!". And radio silence since then too. It seems the developer has got stuck with such a monumental "big rewrite" that it's ended up taking vastly longer than anticipated. I've been waiting for it to leave early access before going back into it, but I fear I might be waiting forever.

schemescape 3y ago
> If you don't actually enjoy the the electronics part so much and just enjoy the psuedo-assembly aspect, then I'd recommend TIS100 or Shenzhen I/O. (Shameless self-promotion, but I think it's relevant here...) And if you've already beaten TIS-100, but would like an even more tedious assembly language experience, I put a (free) single-instruction (subleq) game on Steam: SIC-1 https://store.steampowered.com/app/2124440/SIC1/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/2124440/SIC1/
golly_ned 3y ago
Thank you for this comment. Would you happen to know of a similar kind of game that teaches machine learning or deep learning?
koromak 3y ago
Might as well ask you. I’m toying with the idea of a zachronics style game about analog computing. Building the circuit sim currently. But I can’t tell if it would actually be fun, or if i can find a way to make it fun. Digital computing has the benefit of abstraction. You don’t need to know Ohms law to think about logic gates. If I commit to analog computing, then I absolutely have to find a way to teach the math. The operations are no longer Boolean, they’re a combination of a bunch of different electrical equations. Even if it’s simple math, it doesn’t have the same ethos a programming game typically has. Does this even sound interesting? Would you play it?
- eterm 3y ago
  If I remember right there's a Zach-like game called "Signal State" which is focused on analog circuits. ( I'm not sure how much or similar that is to analog computing ). It might be worth checking that out, get a feel for what you think works and doesn't work so smoothly in that problem domain. The key to a fun zach-like game is making it more like a puzzle game than a simulator, and as such the level design is paramount. Ideally someone should have a good feel for whether they're likely to pass the level before they hit run. If it's a tricky problem, they should be able to get a sense of how to debug / fix an issue from the feedback they get from the output. You don't want your players to end up trying a bunch of random things to try to brute force their way through the problem, they ought to be able to reason about the solution. You ideally don't even want to teach the maths, if even an expert needs to hand-crank calculations outside your environment then you're going wrong somewhere. Try to find a way to visualize the current or predicted states in a way that those calculations can either be abstracted or represented in a different way, so that someone can play without doing the maths themselves. An alternative is to provide a mini sandbox area within the problem they can play around to get a feel for the maths so they can break the problem down that way. If you can find a way to represent the calculations within that somehow, then that'd be a bonus.
- amatic 3y ago
  I've been thinking about the same concept, and trying to find a way to introduce analog computing as something that goes together with the story in the game. Analog computing was historically used to solve differential equations, and differential equations can describe most of physics, so one idea was to make a "history of scientific modelling" as a game, where you take the role of say, Newton, and try to find an equation of some orbital motion, given a table of observations. I'm also building a circuit simulator (stuck on that for a while, tbh), although not necessarily simulating electronic analog computers, but rather the computational principles that could also be applied to mechanical circuits, or just numerical computation. As for abstraction, I really like the approach of Pure Data, you can group some nodes into more abstract ones.
shizzy0 3y ago
MHRD is also great in this genre. I’ve played it multiple times. I’m happy to hear there are more like it. https://store.steampowered.com/app/576030/MHRD/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/576030/MHRD/
- schemescape 3y ago
  Is anyone able to contrast NAND Game and MHRD? They sound very similar.
adv_zxy 3y ago
As a zachtronics' fan I also recommend "Opus Magnum" and "Exapunks". In Exapunks you need to learn a new assembly-like language and use it to command your robot agent. I had a ton of fun in it. I remember I only played the first few challenges of Human Resource Machine. The puzzles felt a little too easy, and solving them wasn't very challenging, so I never went on to the later parts.

by eterm 3y ago

schemescape 3y ago

> If you don't actually enjoy the the electronics part so much and just enjoy the psuedo-assembly aspect, then I'd recommend TIS100 or Shenzhen I/O. (Shameless self-promotion, but I think it's relevant here...) And if you've already beaten TIS-100, but would like an even more tedious assembly language experience, I put a (free) single-instruction (subleq) game on Steam: SIC-1 https://store.steampowered.com/app/2124440/SIC1/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/2124440/SIC1/

golly_ned 3y ago

Thank you for this comment. Would you happen to know of a similar kind of game that teaches machine learning or deep learning?

koromak 3y ago

Might as well ask you. I’m toying with the idea of a zachronics style game about analog computing. Building the circuit sim currently. But I can’t tell if it would actually be fun, or if i can find a way to make it fun. Digital computing has the benefit of abstraction. You don’t need to know Ohms law to think about logic gates. If I commit to analog computing, then I absolutely have to find a way to teach the math. The operations are no longer Boolean, they’re a combination of a bunch of different electrical equations. Even if it’s simple math, it doesn’t have the same ethos a programming game typically has. Does this even sound interesting? Would you play it?

eterm 3y ago
If I remember right there's a Zach-like game called "Signal State" which is focused on analog circuits. ( I'm not sure how much or similar that is to analog computing ). It might be worth checking that out, get a feel for what you think works and doesn't work so smoothly in that problem domain. The key to a fun zach-like game is making it more like a puzzle game than a simulator, and as such the level design is paramount. Ideally someone should have a good feel for whether they're likely to pass the level before they hit run. If it's a tricky problem, they should be able to get a sense of how to debug / fix an issue from the feedback they get from the output. You don't want your players to end up trying a bunch of random things to try to brute force their way through the problem, they ought to be able to reason about the solution. You ideally don't even want to teach the maths, if even an expert needs to hand-crank calculations outside your environment then you're going wrong somewhere. Try to find a way to visualize the current or predicted states in a way that those calculations can either be abstracted or represented in a different way, so that someone can play without doing the maths themselves. An alternative is to provide a mini sandbox area within the problem they can play around to get a feel for the maths so they can break the problem down that way. If you can find a way to represent the calculations within that somehow, then that'd be a bonus.
amatic 3y ago
I've been thinking about the same concept, and trying to find a way to introduce analog computing as something that goes together with the story in the game. Analog computing was historically used to solve differential equations, and differential equations can describe most of physics, so one idea was to make a "history of scientific modelling" as a game, where you take the role of say, Newton, and try to find an equation of some orbital motion, given a table of observations. I'm also building a circuit simulator (stuck on that for a while, tbh), although not necessarily simulating electronic analog computers, but rather the computational principles that could also be applied to mechanical circuits, or just numerical computation. As for abstraction, I really like the approach of Pure Data, you can group some nodes into more abstract ones.

shizzy0 3y ago

MHRD is also great in this genre. I’ve played it multiple times. I’m happy to hear there are more like it. https://store.steampowered.com/app/576030/MHRD/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/576030/MHRD/

schemescape 3y ago
Is anyone able to contrast NAND Game and MHRD? They sound very similar.

adv_zxy 3y ago

As a zachtronics' fan I also recommend "Opus Magnum" and "Exapunks". In Exapunks you need to learn a new assembly-like language and use it to command your robot agent. I had a ton of fun in it. I remember I only played the first few challenges of Human Resource Machine. The puzzles felt a little too easy, and solving them wasn't very challenging, so I never went on to the later parts.