5 ms·

I purposefully buy my appliances as 'dumb' as possible. The only thing I own that needs to be 'smart' is my computer, and I have complete control over its oper

I purposefully buy my appliances as 'dumb' as possible. The only thing I own that needs to be 'smart' is my computer, and I have complete control over its operating system.

wredue 3y ago
Unfortunately, this is becoming somewhere between difficult and impossible. Lots of vendors make their “dumb” stuff unequivocally worse than the smart stuff, but just not using the “smart”. I think the worst part right now is over-complicated circuits to provide like button presses and stuff, then charging $400 when a small part of that circuit inevitably dies so you are forced to take your range to the metal reclaimers and get a new one.
- nicholasjarnold 3y ago
  I suspect this is because with "smart stuff" we often have the associated cellphone app which gives <corp> much deeper insight into your life. This stream of data from your personal life and home can be monetized in various ways. You can help _be_ the product when you _buy_ the product. Cool. /s
- weq 3y ago
  I learnt to work on cars because they are nessessary part of life and if you cant fix them your going to be paying that tax everyday of your life. Ditto with computers and software. You know what else has become a nessesity as we grow into a more technological dependant society, learning about electronics. Being able to indentitf circuts, components, debug and replace them. Check out learn electronics repair / northridgefix on youtube if you want to get started. Hardware and software are very similiar, they follow the same principles, they are all made in the same ways, and just as software uses libraries/packages, hardware often will look exactly the same in each device. I bought an assortment of 1000 tactile switches for $10 off ebay, and Ive fixed atleast 5 appliances in the last year with them (head torches, vacume, washer etc). If you dont, your tax will be to be a victim of the companies profit stratergy of planned obselesance. My dyson for instance was perfectly fine, just a peice of plastic in the handle that required you to dissassemble the whole machine was cracked. It was literly a free fix with some plastic welding a screwdriver. PS. You can buy universal kits that will control a washer or a dryer these days in a low tech way amoung many other devices we use daily. When your smart appliance fails, you can retrofit them. PSS. Your software/hacker spirit should not be limited to a text editor!
  - blackoil 3y ago
    > if you cant fix them your going to be paying that tax everyday of your life. You have calculated cost of learning? For me apart from very basic things like oil/water change, Learning anything else would have ROI over decades if not more.
YetAnotherNick 3y ago
What do you mean by dumb. Is having timer too smart for you and you want to manually turn it off or change modes? I have never seen washing machine any washing machine smarter than that. Even for the washing machines that label themselves as smart, it just sounds like a marketing term[1] and there is nothing smart about it. [1]: https://www.samsung.com/us/home-appliances/washers/front-load/4-5-cu-ft-front-load-washer-with-vibration-reduction-technology-plus-in-white-wf45t6000aw-a5/ https://www.samsung.com/us/home-appliances/washers/front-loa...
- anamexis 3y ago
  Well you haven't been looking too closely then, because there are a ton of washing machines on the market that are WiFi-enabled and have apps.
  - YetAnotherNick 3y ago
    There must be for sure, but I opened bestbuy and I can't find any on the first page[1]. There are always some buyer who are attracted by technical terms so there is some market for those. [1]: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/washers-dryers/washers-washing-machines/abcat0910001.c?id=abcat0910001 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/washers-dryers/washers-washing-...
    - wlesieutre 3y ago
      Maybe we're getting different lists, the 5th one down for me is a Samsung with WiFi https://www.bestbuy.com/site/6416171.p?skuId=6416171 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/6416171.p?skuId=6416171
      - YetAnotherNick 3y ago
        Where does it say that it has wifi? Smart is just a marketing term here.
        mikeyouse 3y ago
vardump 3y ago
> ...I have complete control over its operating system. But no control over BIOS, firmware for over 10 devices (wifi, bluetooth, camera, SSD, touchpad, and so on), a full hidden OS running on the CPU, etc. Every USB device has their own code running on them. Even laptop batteries have a microcontroller that's running something totally inaccessible to you. While you can control the OS it's running, it's not really your computer.
- withinboredom 3y ago
  You can buy cpus without the management engine enabled. You can burn whatever bios you want (though I recommend a compatible one), and you can install whatever drivers you want with whatever binary blob firmware you want. The OS loads that firmware at boot, so you do have full control (unless you are on a Mac). I’m running a custom bios on my laptop that lets me tune whatever I want. It’s literally just code, like anything else.
  - oynqr 3y ago
    Add trusted boot to the mix and suddenly you can't modify any of it.
    - withinboredom 3y ago
      Even off the shelf bioses let you set your own keys for safe boot.
      - oynqr 3y ago
        Well, it will let be boot an OS that isn't Windows, cool. Still can't modify the signed firmware itself.
        withinboredom 3y ago
        I mean, unless you’re running around with the windows source code, you’re not going to be doing much anyway with that os. Look, I don’t think you know how this works. You actually have intimate control over a computer’s hardware, software, and firmware. I don’t know why you think otherwise.
gosub100 3y ago
its not the "smart stuff" that is the problem (although that stuff is annoying and rarely helpful). I bought a house that had a samsung fridge built within the last 10 years. The fridge had a "defect" [1] where the defroster would leak water over the thermostat, which would then freeze, and most of the fridge would go warm because the thermostat thought it was below freezing. the appliance tech said this is a known defect and they sell aftermarket kits to fully thaw the thermostat. Furthermore, the icemaker would leak water that froze it in position (no, the defrost cycle wouldn't help), requiring an enormous amount of force to break out to unclog it and get ice again. Samsung is _absolutely_ , _positively_, _JUNK_. [1] my personal conspiracy theory is they manufacture these defects on purpose to scare you into buying expensive warranties and slowly nudge you to buy a new fridge in 6 years.
- foobarian 3y ago
  We had problems with all Samsung appliances ever. The fridge leak was fixed by a longer defrost heat spreader. A different fridge has the icemaker freeze up requiring a heat gun session once a month. Knobs break off of stoves. Washing machine rusting in contact with cleaning chemicals. Etc. :-). Not my choice with the brand since they came with apartment or house we bought but definitely a good lesson.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
spacecadet 3y ago
Same here. From there you can control all sorts of open alternatives for smart things, if you need that. I prefer most of my appliances to be "dumb" but resilient.
whstl 3y ago
I actually wish my computer was a tad dumber It seems to have a mind of its own for a lot of stuff I with I had more control over

I purposefully buy my appliances as 'dumb' as possible. The only thing I own that needs to be 'smart' is my computer, and I have complete control over its operating system.

wredue 3y ago

Unfortunately, this is becoming somewhere between difficult and impossible. Lots of vendors make their “dumb” stuff unequivocally worse than the smart stuff, but just not using the “smart”. I think the worst part right now is over-complicated circuits to provide like button presses and stuff, then charging $400 when a small part of that circuit inevitably dies so you are forced to take your range to the metal reclaimers and get a new one.

nicholasjarnold 3y ago
I suspect this is because with "smart stuff" we often have the associated cellphone app which gives <corp> much deeper insight into your life. This stream of data from your personal life and home can be monetized in various ways. You can help _be_ the product when you _buy_ the product. Cool. /s
weq 3y ago
I learnt to work on cars because they are nessessary part of life and if you cant fix them your going to be paying that tax everyday of your life. Ditto with computers and software. You know what else has become a nessesity as we grow into a more technological dependant society, learning about electronics. Being able to indentitf circuts, components, debug and replace them. Check out learn electronics repair / northridgefix on youtube if you want to get started. Hardware and software are very similiar, they follow the same principles, they are all made in the same ways, and just as software uses libraries/packages, hardware often will look exactly the same in each device. I bought an assortment of 1000 tactile switches for $10 off ebay, and Ive fixed atleast 5 appliances in the last year with them (head torches, vacume, washer etc). If you dont, your tax will be to be a victim of the companies profit stratergy of planned obselesance. My dyson for instance was perfectly fine, just a peice of plastic in the handle that required you to dissassemble the whole machine was cracked. It was literly a free fix with some plastic welding a screwdriver. PS. You can buy universal kits that will control a washer or a dryer these days in a low tech way amoung many other devices we use daily. When your smart appliance fails, you can retrofit them. PSS. Your software/hacker spirit should not be limited to a text editor!
- blackoil 3y ago
  > if you cant fix them your going to be paying that tax everyday of your life. You have calculated cost of learning? For me apart from very basic things like oil/water change, Learning anything else would have ROI over decades if not more.

YetAnotherNick 3y ago

What do you mean by dumb. Is having timer too smart for you and you want to manually turn it off or change modes? I have never seen washing machine any washing machine smarter than that. Even for the washing machines that label themselves as smart, it just sounds like a marketing term[1] and there is nothing smart about it. [1]: https://www.samsung.com/us/home-appliances/washers/front-load/4-5-cu-ft-front-load-washer-with-vibration-reduction-technology-plus-in-white-wf45t6000aw-a5/ https://www.samsung.com/us/home-appliances/washers/front-loa...

anamexis 3y ago
Well you haven't been looking too closely then, because there are a ton of washing machines on the market that are WiFi-enabled and have apps.
- YetAnotherNick 3y ago
  There must be for sure, but I opened bestbuy and I can't find any on the first page[1]. There are always some buyer who are attracted by technical terms so there is some market for those. [1]: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/washers-dryers/washers-washing-machines/abcat0910001.c?id=abcat0910001 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/washers-dryers/washers-washing-...
  - wlesieutre 3y ago
    Maybe we're getting different lists, the 5th one down for me is a Samsung with WiFi https://www.bestbuy.com/site/6416171.p?skuId=6416171 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/6416171.p?skuId=6416171
    - YetAnotherNick 3y ago
      Where does it say that it has wifi? Smart is just a marketing term here.
      - mikeyouse 3y ago

vardump 3y ago

> ...I have complete control over its operating system. But no control over BIOS, firmware for over 10 devices (wifi, bluetooth, camera, SSD, touchpad, and so on), a full hidden OS running on the CPU, etc. Every USB device has their own code running on them. Even laptop batteries have a microcontroller that's running something totally inaccessible to you. While you can control the OS it's running, it's not really your computer.

withinboredom 3y ago
You can buy cpus without the management engine enabled. You can burn whatever bios you want (though I recommend a compatible one), and you can install whatever drivers you want with whatever binary blob firmware you want. The OS loads that firmware at boot, so you do have full control (unless you are on a Mac). I’m running a custom bios on my laptop that lets me tune whatever I want. It’s literally just code, like anything else.
- oynqr 3y ago
  Add trusted boot to the mix and suddenly you can't modify any of it.
  - withinboredom 3y ago
    Even off the shelf bioses let you set your own keys for safe boot.
    - oynqr 3y ago
      Well, it will let be boot an OS that isn't Windows, cool. Still can't modify the signed firmware itself.
      - withinboredom 3y ago
        I mean, unless you’re running around with the windows source code, you’re not going to be doing much anyway with that os. Look, I don’t think you know how this works. You actually have intimate control over a computer’s hardware, software, and firmware. I don’t know why you think otherwise.

gosub100 3y ago

its not the "smart stuff" that is the problem (although that stuff is annoying and rarely helpful). I bought a house that had a samsung fridge built within the last 10 years. The fridge had a "defect" [1] where the defroster would leak water over the thermostat, which would then freeze, and most of the fridge would go warm because the thermostat thought it was below freezing. the appliance tech said this is a known defect and they sell aftermarket kits to fully thaw the thermostat. Furthermore, the icemaker would leak water that froze it in position (no, the defrost cycle wouldn't help), requiring an enormous amount of force to break out to unclog it and get ice again. Samsung is _absolutely_ , _positively_, _JUNK_. [1] my personal conspiracy theory is they manufacture these defects on purpose to scare you into buying expensive warranties and slowly nudge you to buy a new fridge in 6 years.

foobarian 3y ago
We had problems with all Samsung appliances ever. The fridge leak was fixed by a longer defrost heat spreader. A different fridge has the icemaker freeze up requiring a heat gun session once a month. Knobs break off of stoves. Washing machine rusting in contact with cleaning chemicals. Etc. :-). Not my choice with the brand since they came with apartment or house we bought but definitely a good lesson.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

spacecadet 3y ago

Same here. From there you can control all sorts of open alternatives for smart things, if you need that. I prefer most of my appliances to be "dumb" but resilient.

whstl 3y ago

I actually wish my computer was a tad dumber It seems to have a mind of its own for a lot of stuff I with I had more control over