3 ms·

What if they just built batteries into the base of turbine? And it could become a base load power source by smoothing its output.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> What if they just built batteries into the base of turbine? What would this gain other than making the turbines more expensive to build and maintain? It’s cheaper to put the batteries almost anywhere else and altogether.
- epistasis 3y ago
  Adding batteries is already quite common to allow for small amounts of price arbitrage. Its more common for utilities scale solar, with over half of new solar including storage, but wind isn't far behind, IIRC. The advantage of putting it next to the generation is that you get to reuse the transmission line, and make better use of it. And since transmission and distribution are more expensive than generation, anything that cuts those costs is a big win. Also, it's a site that the wind farm owner already controls, which makes it far easier than obtaining interconnection somewhere else, as interconnection queues are one of the biggest roadblocks to deploying more renewable resources right now. (Additionally, with solar, you get to reduce your inverters, which you can't do if the storage is placed at a second site)
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    The suggestion was the base of each turbine. That has no advantages compared to the point the turbines are connected to the electricity grid — N locations to service rather than 1, N copies of everything rather than 1 big one, etc.
    - epistasis 3y ago
      You are correct, I misunderstood! Hopefully my prattling on will be helpful to others though...
kolinko 3y ago
They will probably have an energy storage facitilty nearby. There’s little benefit to bundling these, and the cost of maintenance is increased. Also, batteries will have shorter timespan than the turbines. It may begin to make sense when battery prices get so low that installation and setup costs increase - similarly to solar where a large part of price currently is installation and scaffolding, not the panels themselves
adrianmonk 3y ago
Because of finite transmission capacity, the optimal place to put batteries is pretty complicated. Consumption varies over time, and there can be bottlenecks getting power into an area, so you might want storage near consumption. Wind power is going to vary in how much it generates, so if there are bottlenecks getting power out of the area, you might want storage near generation. Plus, bottlenecks can move around. For example, if two power plants share the same line to send power to two cities.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> What if they just built batteries into the base of turbine? What would this gain other than making the turbines more expensive to build and maintain? It’s cheaper to put the batteries almost anywhere else and altogether.

epistasis 3y ago
Adding batteries is already quite common to allow for small amounts of price arbitrage. Its more common for utilities scale solar, with over half of new solar including storage, but wind isn't far behind, IIRC. The advantage of putting it next to the generation is that you get to reuse the transmission line, and make better use of it. And since transmission and distribution are more expensive than generation, anything that cuts those costs is a big win. Also, it's a site that the wind farm owner already controls, which makes it far easier than obtaining interconnection somewhere else, as interconnection queues are one of the biggest roadblocks to deploying more renewable resources right now. (Additionally, with solar, you get to reduce your inverters, which you can't do if the storage is placed at a second site)
- Symbiote 3y ago
  The suggestion was the base of each turbine. That has no advantages compared to the point the turbines are connected to the electricity grid — N locations to service rather than 1, N copies of everything rather than 1 big one, etc.
  - epistasis 3y ago
    You are correct, I misunderstood! Hopefully my prattling on will be helpful to others though...

kolinko 3y ago

They will probably have an energy storage facitilty nearby. There’s little benefit to bundling these, and the cost of maintenance is increased. Also, batteries will have shorter timespan than the turbines. It may begin to make sense when battery prices get so low that installation and setup costs increase - similarly to solar where a large part of price currently is installation and scaffolding, not the panels themselves

adrianmonk 3y ago

Because of finite transmission capacity, the optimal place to put batteries is pretty complicated. Consumption varies over time, and there can be bottlenecks getting power into an area, so you might want storage near consumption. Wind power is going to vary in how much it generates, so if there are bottlenecks getting power out of the area, you might want storage near generation. Plus, bottlenecks can move around. For example, if two power plants share the same line to send power to two cities.