4 ms·

Why 737 Max in particular?

notac23 3y ago
They've been having major manufacturing and software quality issues. Have almost killed people several times at this point.
- schnable 3y ago
  In fact, theyve already killed a few hundred people.
  - notac23 3y ago
    You're right. I couldn't remember so I didn't want to say it without being sure.
- dtagames 3y ago
  Not almost. Actually. 189 people first, then 157 only five months later.
- pietz 3y ago
  Almost?
Closi 3y ago
Because they fall out the sky and occasionally their windows fly off.
- jackdh 3y ago
  Well it's better a window than the front falling off.
  - stephenr 3y ago
    If a wave hits your plane the front falling off is the least of your concerns.
  - danbruc 3y ago
    That's not very typical! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM
  - CafeRacer 3y ago
    Lol, I still don't know if that interview is a comedy sketch or real.
    - cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
      On the off chance that this is genuine, it’s a sketch. A very famous comedy duo. Unfortunately one passed away a while ago.
    - stephenr 3y ago
      It's a satirical interview about a real event: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirki_(tanker) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirki_(tanker) They (the comedians) posted similar comedic takes on politics for many years; eg this one about Australia's energy market https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ELaBzj7cn14 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ELaBzj7cn14
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
dtagames 3y ago
Its appalling safety record [0] thus far makes it one of the least safe airplanes in modern history. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX#Accidents_and_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX#Accidents_and_i...
- I-Robot 3y ago
  That is really bad misinformation statistically speaking. The "Max" aircraft (all variants) have literally many millions of miles of safe flight. If anything, it is the most scrutinized commercial aircraft in all of history.
  - stephenr 3y ago
    I'm not going to comment on how it compares to other planes but it's certainly significantly less safe than the previous generations of 737: > a fatal accident rate of four accidents per million flights, whereas the previous Boeing 737 generations averaged 0.2 fatal accidents per million flights
  - firebaze 3y ago
    But even with this scrutiny glaring issues like the current ones have been missed. https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/boeings-ongoing-737-max-crisis-2024-01-06/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/boeings-o... (The most recent problem is missing yet)
  - dtagames 3y ago
    I'll take the 777, thanks. https://simpleflying.com/safest-airliners-all-time/ https://simpleflying.com/safest-airliners-all-time/
  - StreetChief 3y ago
    Are you equating and summing miles flown from different variants?! Rules and regulations apply separately for each variant.
mikepurvis 3y ago
Reasonable place to start: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings
ThisIsMyAltAcct 3y ago
The 737 Max is the DC-10 of the 21st century
- ngcc_hk 3y ago
  Yes. Both remember as the models one should avoid if one can.
  - dionidium 3y ago
    IIRC the DC-10 went on to have a stellar safety record.
JamesLeonis 3y ago
There was a recent blowout of a door, and now several problems were found in subsequent MAX planes. This is part of a larger saga with faults found in MAX planes that have caused some crashes, and the longstanding quality issues with Boeing. Some previous discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38917820 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38917820 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38893909 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38893909 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38889774 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38889774
- kube-system 3y ago
  Yes, but those parts in question exist only on the MAX 9, which is no longer flying. Right now the answer to: "Is my plane a 737 MAX 9?" is "no, it isn't"
  - Eji1700 3y ago
    When a plane crashes, twice, totaling 300+ dead, people are right to get skeptical. When the investigation into those crashes reveals a shitload of corner cutting on safety regs, people are right to get skeptical. When another version of the same plane made by the same company has an in flight blowout and the fleet is grounded AGAIN (yes i know just the 9s but remind me how many other companies have had entire lines of their plane grounded in the last 20 years), then yes I think it's reasonable to want to avoid any of their newer plane models as clearly the level of safety and quality appears to be declining. Flying is still safer than just about any other form of travel, but that's basically because we mandated a shit ton of regulations and safety to make sure that even penny pinching corner cutting corps wouldn't have people dying in droves. Boeing has clearly decided to push that envelope and they deserve all the bad press they get for it and I fully understand people who already have a quasi irrational fear of flying freaking the hell out over this. I would certainly not buy a car from a company that's clearly disregarded safety so badly, and would prefer avoiding being in one for any other reason (friends/rideshare/whatever).
    - kube-system 3y ago
      > I would certainly not buy a car from a company that's clearly disregarded safety so badly, and would prefer avoiding being in one for any other reason (friends/rideshare/whatever). That's a lot of cars. The standard in the auto industry is to design specifically for regulatory tests, and/or popular industry tests, in a specific region. All major automakers sell cars that intentionally lack safety features in regions that don't explicitly require them, if it will give their vehicle a price advantage in that market. e.g. you can still buy vehicles without airbags made by major auto manufacturers.

They've been having major manufacturing and software quality issues. Have almost killed people several times at this point.

schnable 3y ago
In fact, theyve already killed a few hundred people.
- notac23 3y ago
  You're right. I couldn't remember so I didn't want to say it without being sure.
dtagames 3y ago
Not almost. Actually. 189 people first, then 157 only five months later.
pietz 3y ago
Almost?

Closi 3y ago

Because they fall out the sky and occasionally their windows fly off.

jackdh 3y ago
Well it's better a window than the front falling off.
- stephenr 3y ago
  If a wave hits your plane the front falling off is the least of your concerns.
- danbruc 3y ago
  That's not very typical! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM
- CafeRacer 3y ago
  Lol, I still don't know if that interview is a comedy sketch or real.
  - cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
    On the off chance that this is genuine, it’s a sketch. A very famous comedy duo. Unfortunately one passed away a while ago.
  - stephenr 3y ago
    It's a satirical interview about a real event: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirki_(tanker) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirki_(tanker) They (the comedians) posted similar comedic takes on politics for many years; eg this one about Australia's energy market https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ELaBzj7cn14 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ELaBzj7cn14
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

dtagames 3y ago

Its appalling safety record [0] thus far makes it one of the least safe airplanes in modern history. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX#Accidents_and_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX#Accidents_and_i...

I-Robot 3y ago
That is really bad misinformation statistically speaking. The "Max" aircraft (all variants) have literally many millions of miles of safe flight. If anything, it is the most scrutinized commercial aircraft in all of history.
- stephenr 3y ago
  I'm not going to comment on how it compares to other planes but it's certainly significantly less safe than the previous generations of 737: > a fatal accident rate of four accidents per million flights, whereas the previous Boeing 737 generations averaged 0.2 fatal accidents per million flights
- firebaze 3y ago
  But even with this scrutiny glaring issues like the current ones have been missed. https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/boeings-ongoing-737-max-crisis-2024-01-06/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/boeings-o... (The most recent problem is missing yet)
- dtagames 3y ago
  I'll take the 777, thanks. https://simpleflying.com/safest-airliners-all-time/ https://simpleflying.com/safest-airliners-all-time/
- StreetChief 3y ago
  Are you equating and summing miles flown from different variants?! Rules and regulations apply separately for each variant.

mikepurvis 3y ago

Reasonable place to start: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings

ThisIsMyAltAcct 3y ago

The 737 Max is the DC-10 of the 21st century

ngcc_hk 3y ago
Yes. Both remember as the models one should avoid if one can.
- dionidium 3y ago
  IIRC the DC-10 went on to have a stellar safety record.

JamesLeonis 3y ago

There was a recent blowout of a door, and now several problems were found in subsequent MAX planes. This is part of a larger saga with faults found in MAX planes that have caused some crashes, and the longstanding quality issues with Boeing. Some previous discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38917820 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38917820 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38893909 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38893909 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38889774 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38889774

kube-system 3y ago
Yes, but those parts in question exist only on the MAX 9, which is no longer flying. Right now the answer to: "Is my plane a 737 MAX 9?" is "no, it isn't"
- Eji1700 3y ago
  When a plane crashes, twice, totaling 300+ dead, people are right to get skeptical. When the investigation into those crashes reveals a shitload of corner cutting on safety regs, people are right to get skeptical. When another version of the same plane made by the same company has an in flight blowout and the fleet is grounded AGAIN (yes i know just the 9s but remind me how many other companies have had entire lines of their plane grounded in the last 20 years), then yes I think it's reasonable to want to avoid any of their newer plane models as clearly the level of safety and quality appears to be declining. Flying is still safer than just about any other form of travel, but that's basically because we mandated a shit ton of regulations and safety to make sure that even penny pinching corner cutting corps wouldn't have people dying in droves. Boeing has clearly decided to push that envelope and they deserve all the bad press they get for it and I fully understand people who already have a quasi irrational fear of flying freaking the hell out over this. I would certainly not buy a car from a company that's clearly disregarded safety so badly, and would prefer avoiding being in one for any other reason (friends/rideshare/whatever).
  - kube-system 3y ago
    > I would certainly not buy a car from a company that's clearly disregarded safety so badly, and would prefer avoiding being in one for any other reason (friends/rideshare/whatever). That's a lot of cars. The standard in the auto industry is to design specifically for regulatory tests, and/or popular industry tests, in a specific region. All major automakers sell cars that intentionally lack safety features in regions that don't explicitly require them, if it will give their vehicle a price advantage in that market. e.g. you can still buy vehicles without airbags made by major auto manufacturers.