4 ms·

The idea that it plateaus is a well studied phenomenon; most people don’t get significantly happier after 75k or so a year. I also think it’s very odd to sugges

The idea that it plateaus is a well studied phenomenon; most people don’t get significantly happier after 75k or so a year. I also think it’s very odd to suggest people with money (I’m imagining someone rich) have deeper bonds than poor people since my intuition would have led me to the opposite conclusion (poor people are more reliant on their communities). Your anecdote is really interesting cause, while being poor is absolutely soul crushing, dating is an area that shouldn’t need to be expensive, yet social expectations that men be the breadwinners (outdated, since everyone is forced to work now) lead many women to absolute dicks about men not having a bunch of money.

wait_a_minute 3y ago
> yet social expectations that men be the breadwinners (outdated, since everyone is forced to work now) Still plenty of stay-home moms who raise the kids and make the home. I don’t think your comment about that way of life being outdated is accurate, and I predict that because of automation the over-all need for labor will decline such that we will necessarily as a society go back to breadwinners and caretakers working together to build a household.
- BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
  You may be right about the division of labor reverting (though i sort of doubt it) but i think its unlikely to have its original gender divide since our social norms have shifted so much.
TriangleEdge 3y ago
This study suggests there isn't a 75k plateau: https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2016976118 https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2016976118
- BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
  Yeah you’re right. The study I was thinking of got debunked.
wharvle 3y ago
> most people don’t get significantly happier after 75k or so a year I call hard bullshit. Without even considering luxury spending, just not having to think about money very often is incredibly nice, and $75k is nowhere near any kind of plateau on that. At $75k you had damn well better still be tallying up how much money's going in your cart at the grocery store. Not having to do that for basic stuff anymore, not having to worry much about coupons or bargain-shopping and just being able to say "I need this, or at least it would be very nice to have" and get it, no worry, no saving, no waiting for a sale, is such a GIGANTIC load off one's mind. Car breaks? Take it to the shop, any plausible bill won't trash your budget for the month, let alone the year. Water leak? Yeah you could fix the drywall... but if you really don't feel like it this time, or are busy, you can just have someone else do it and the bill won't sting that bad. Groceries? Barely even pay attention to the total. Need some particular clothes for some purpose? Just buy them, and decent ones that won't look like shit and do fit right, at that. Kid breaks their arm? The cost barely even crosses your mind (it'll suck, but you'll be fine). It is SUCH a relief.
- nprateem 3y ago
  A relief doesn't make you happy though. It just makes you not stressed. IME there's totally a plateau where you realise more money just means more expensive toys with minimal increase in actual fulfilment or happiness.
  - RandomLensman 3y ago
    Maybe in the hundreds of millions $ or so. Before that a lot of tangible differences to everyday life on increased wealth (if so desired).
    - BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
      Its probably in the hundreds of thousands range according to newer studies. Think practically about whether you can do different things with 10mil than 100mil and whether those things are likely to make you happy.
    - 3y ago
jackcosgrove 3y ago
I first heard the $75k number in the 90s when you could buy a house for twice that. I think that number is due for an update because of inflation.
antisthenes 3y ago
> The idea that it plateaus is a well studied phenomenon; most people don’t get significantly happier after 75k or so a year. Is that adjusted for COVID-era inflation? That number should be 20% higher, at least.
- BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
  It was a 2010 study, but it turns out the study itself was pretty much entirely incorrect as well.
Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
> The idea that it plateaus is a well studied phenomenon; most people don’t get significantly happier after 75k or so a year. That claim is 100% bullshit and I'm surprised anybody on HN would ever believe it. Just consider housing prices alone! Where was that study done? Bumfuck, Nowhere, where a 2,000 sq ft house is $50K and you can live like a king on $30/hr? Was it done in 1990 or something? Go to ANY major city and $75K/year won't even buy you a modest condo, let alone a house. You'll struggle to even raise a family in an apartment on that. I can certainly tell you that I'm much happier making $200K/year than when I was making $100K/year. $100K paid all the bills and still had decent disposable income. $200K means I can buy a $2,000 GPU and not feel like I need to budget for it. $200K means I can buy my $150,000 dream car. $200K means I can buy prime-quality ribeye on a whim and not care that it's $30/lb. It means flying first class to Italy when I go on vacation, rather than flying coach to somewhere in the USA. I can't fathom how ANYBODY can think the plateau happens at $75K. Absolute and utter nonsense.
- BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
  Yeah I think the study I was drawing on has been debunked, so nevermind. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/money-happiness-study-daniel-kahneman-500000-versus-75000/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/money-happiness-study-daniel-ka...
- zaphar 3y ago
  You did absolutely nothing to debunk the claim except say that you can't believe it's true relying purely on your anecdotal experiences.
  - Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
    I gave specifics, but try taking a broader interpretation. I touched on the topic of housing. I think most families would be happier in a ~2000 sq ft house rather than a <1000 sq ft apartment[0]. Certainly you can accept that truth without needing a peer-reviewed study of people's housing preferences. You can't buy a 2000 sq ft house on $75K/year unless you're in the middle of nowhere. [0] Note that I mean MOST, not ALL. There are some people that despise single-family homes and prefer the higher-density aparments/condos, but I think they're a minority.
jandrewrogers 3y ago
Happiness may plateau, but life satisfaction does not. And there has been subsequent research that casts doubt on the idea that happiness plateaus. Happiness has a large endogenous component i.e. it is the nature of the individual to be more or less happy on average. I would argue that life satisfaction is much more important than happiness generally regardless.

wait_a_minute 3y ago

> yet social expectations that men be the breadwinners (outdated, since everyone is forced to work now) Still plenty of stay-home moms who raise the kids and make the home. I don’t think your comment about that way of life being outdated is accurate, and I predict that because of automation the over-all need for labor will decline such that we will necessarily as a society go back to breadwinners and caretakers working together to build a household.

BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
You may be right about the division of labor reverting (though i sort of doubt it) but i think its unlikely to have its original gender divide since our social norms have shifted so much.

TriangleEdge 3y ago

This study suggests there isn't a 75k plateau: https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2016976118 https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2016976118

BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
Yeah you’re right. The study I was thinking of got debunked.

wharvle 3y ago

> most people don’t get significantly happier after 75k or so a year I call hard bullshit. Without even considering luxury spending, just not having to think about money very often is incredibly nice, and $75k is nowhere near any kind of plateau on that. At $75k you had damn well better still be tallying up how much money's going in your cart at the grocery store. Not having to do that for basic stuff anymore, not having to worry much about coupons or bargain-shopping and just being able to say "I need this, or at least it would be very nice to have" and get it, no worry, no saving, no waiting for a sale, is such a GIGANTIC load off one's mind. Car breaks? Take it to the shop, any plausible bill won't trash your budget for the month, let alone the year. Water leak? Yeah you could fix the drywall... but if you really don't feel like it this time, or are busy, you can just have someone else do it and the bill won't sting that bad. Groceries? Barely even pay attention to the total. Need some particular clothes for some purpose? Just buy them, and decent ones that won't look like shit and do fit right, at that. Kid breaks their arm? The cost barely even crosses your mind (it'll suck, but you'll be fine). It is SUCH a relief.

nprateem 3y ago
A relief doesn't make you happy though. It just makes you not stressed. IME there's totally a plateau where you realise more money just means more expensive toys with minimal increase in actual fulfilment or happiness.
- RandomLensman 3y ago
  Maybe in the hundreds of millions $ or so. Before that a lot of tangible differences to everyday life on increased wealth (if so desired).
  - BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
    Its probably in the hundreds of thousands range according to newer studies. Think practically about whether you can do different things with 10mil than 100mil and whether those things are likely to make you happy.
  - 3y ago

jackcosgrove 3y ago

I first heard the $75k number in the 90s when you could buy a house for twice that. I think that number is due for an update because of inflation.

antisthenes 3y ago

> The idea that it plateaus is a well studied phenomenon; most people don’t get significantly happier after 75k or so a year. Is that adjusted for COVID-era inflation? That number should be 20% higher, at least.

BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
It was a 2010 study, but it turns out the study itself was pretty much entirely incorrect as well.

Sohcahtoa82 3y ago

> The idea that it plateaus is a well studied phenomenon; most people don’t get significantly happier after 75k or so a year. That claim is 100% bullshit and I'm surprised anybody on HN would ever believe it. Just consider housing prices alone! Where was that study done? Bumfuck, Nowhere, where a 2,000 sq ft house is $50K and you can live like a king on $30/hr? Was it done in 1990 or something? Go to ANY major city and $75K/year won't even buy you a modest condo, let alone a house. You'll struggle to even raise a family in an apartment on that. I can certainly tell you that I'm much happier making $200K/year than when I was making $100K/year. $100K paid all the bills and still had decent disposable income. $200K means I can buy a $2,000 GPU and not feel like I need to budget for it. $200K means I can buy my $150,000 dream car. $200K means I can buy prime-quality ribeye on a whim and not care that it's $30/lb. It means flying first class to Italy when I go on vacation, rather than flying coach to somewhere in the USA. I can't fathom how ANYBODY can think the plateau happens at $75K. Absolute and utter nonsense.

BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
Yeah I think the study I was drawing on has been debunked, so nevermind. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/money-happiness-study-daniel-kahneman-500000-versus-75000/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/money-happiness-study-daniel-ka...
zaphar 3y ago
You did absolutely nothing to debunk the claim except say that you can't believe it's true relying purely on your anecdotal experiences.
- Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
  I gave specifics, but try taking a broader interpretation. I touched on the topic of housing. I think most families would be happier in a ~2000 sq ft house rather than a <1000 sq ft apartment[0]. Certainly you can accept that truth without needing a peer-reviewed study of people's housing preferences. You can't buy a 2000 sq ft house on $75K/year unless you're in the middle of nowhere. [0] Note that I mean MOST, not ALL. There are some people that despise single-family homes and prefer the higher-density aparments/condos, but I think they're a minority.

jandrewrogers 3y ago

Happiness may plateau, but life satisfaction does not. And there has been subsequent research that casts doubt on the idea that happiness plateaus. Happiness has a large endogenous component i.e. it is the nature of the individual to be more or less happy on average. I would argue that life satisfaction is much more important than happiness generally regardless.