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Im sick of the "capitalism sucks" undercurrent here. 1. Show me the system proven to be "better". The one you're willing to live under. Take your time I'll wai

Im sick of the "capitalism sucks" undercurrent here. 1. Show me the system proven to be "better". The one you're willing to live under. Take your time I'll wait. 2. Even in capitalism you have choice. Go work for a union shop. Go work for a collective ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation ). If you dont like those, start your own company. I feel like this article is targeting a generation... Its message is mixed, but the conclusion is spot on. You need money, friends, and a thick skin/patience (and all that is hard work, on top of your job).

foobiekr 3y ago
How will we ever find something that sucks less if we aren't honest about the downsides of our current model of capitalism? I don't need to show you something proven to be better to ask that question unless you have some kind of creationist-like belief that all systems have been discovered and tried.
- zer00eyz 3y ago
  >> we aren't honest about the downsides of our current model of capitalism? 1930's United fruit. I dont think we're gonna argue that they were "good" but their impact was bad in the face of weak governments. In the US we have our 3 branches. We also have Adams 4th branch (jury nullification). There is the 4th estate / first amendment. And then there is corporations. Corporations having some influence on government is good but the US is leaning into too much territory, and Europe too little. Change isn't hard in the US, it's motivating people out of apathy to get it done that is hard. Shockingly most capitalist countries have it easy. There is a famous story about a grocery store and how it killed the USSR: https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/bayarea/news/article/When-Boris-Yeltsin-went-grocery-shopping-in-Clear-5759129.php https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/bayarea/news/article/When... If you want change it isn't about "honest about the suck" its about motivating me and everyone else to buy into something enough to put down the phone and get off the couch and make that change happen.
fragmede 3y ago
Flaws in the current system are still flaws regardless of if there's an alternative on the table. Capitalism does suck but it's not even the system we've got - we've got this weird mix of free and un-free markets that we live under that resembles capitalism on a good day, but more closely resembles anarchy a lot of the time because there aren't government regulations and when there are, there's regulatory capture so the powers that be do what they want and the rest of us just line in their world. We're allowed to complain about the shortcomings of the system we live under and as humans we find connection by finding commonalities with others, even though we may not have a solution for any of the problems. You might be unable to have problems you can't fix, but everyone else has to live with them.
coliveira 3y ago
For millions of people living in poverty and homeless around the world and in the US itself, the capitalism system is a failure. Point. Now, you and lots of other people may be benefiting, but there is no point in saying it is a success when literally millions out there have been left out in the cold by this supposedly great system. This is true of any system that will let a large proportion of the planet living in misery for so long. There is no point in celebrating wealth for the few and misery for so many.
- zer00eyz 3y ago
  > For millions of people living in poverty and homeless around the world and in the US itself, the capitalism system is a failure. You're blaming an economic framework for what in the majority of cases is failure of government. Frankly half a million homeless Americans is far better than the current alternatives of Russia or China... It isn't a very good point. in 1950 the average American home was 900 ish sq ft. Today the average American has 900sqf of space IN their home. We went from united fruit (misery where governments were weak) to fruit, coffee, tea, chocolate, cobalt, nickel... Americans got fat, and everyone else had the same level of suffering (maybe). Candidly it's been "a large proportion of the planet living in misery" forever. We're still the same monkeys who raped and murdered the neanderthals out of existence, we haven't really evolved since we salted the earth at Carthage. Look at the USSR, everyone was going to get a house, and a car and a.... Status wasn't about money it was about who got one first. At a point in Chinese communism status was indicated by pens (how many, if you keep them in a pocket)... The way you got ahead in these systems was graft, bribery and birthright. At least in the US and EU there is some sense of being able to elevate myself and a path to get there. The problem is that some people don't want to take it, they don't want to put the work in. The reality is that their quality of life is going to decline in the continuing global future because there isn't enough to go around. The current trend of wealth leading to decline in population (birth rate below replacement) is fascinating. The US makes up for it with immigration, china and Japan not so much, and Europe is going to have a cultural shift because of it. The next few decades will be interesting. The reality is that we're picking the option that sucks the least. I, am not happy about it, but no one has shown up with a better alternative that WORKS.

foobiekr 3y ago

How will we ever find something that sucks less if we aren't honest about the downsides of our current model of capitalism? I don't need to show you something proven to be better to ask that question unless you have some kind of creationist-like belief that all systems have been discovered and tried.

zer00eyz 3y ago
>> we aren't honest about the downsides of our current model of capitalism? 1930's United fruit. I dont think we're gonna argue that they were "good" but their impact was bad in the face of weak governments. In the US we have our 3 branches. We also have Adams 4th branch (jury nullification). There is the 4th estate / first amendment. And then there is corporations. Corporations having some influence on government is good but the US is leaning into too much territory, and Europe too little. Change isn't hard in the US, it's motivating people out of apathy to get it done that is hard. Shockingly most capitalist countries have it easy. There is a famous story about a grocery store and how it killed the USSR: https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/bayarea/news/article/When-Boris-Yeltsin-went-grocery-shopping-in-Clear-5759129.php https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/bayarea/news/article/When... If you want change it isn't about "honest about the suck" its about motivating me and everyone else to buy into something enough to put down the phone and get off the couch and make that change happen.

fragmede 3y ago

Flaws in the current system are still flaws regardless of if there's an alternative on the table. Capitalism does suck but it's not even the system we've got - we've got this weird mix of free and un-free markets that we live under that resembles capitalism on a good day, but more closely resembles anarchy a lot of the time because there aren't government regulations and when there are, there's regulatory capture so the powers that be do what they want and the rest of us just line in their world. We're allowed to complain about the shortcomings of the system we live under and as humans we find connection by finding commonalities with others, even though we may not have a solution for any of the problems. You might be unable to have problems you can't fix, but everyone else has to live with them.

coliveira 3y ago

For millions of people living in poverty and homeless around the world and in the US itself, the capitalism system is a failure. Point. Now, you and lots of other people may be benefiting, but there is no point in saying it is a success when literally millions out there have been left out in the cold by this supposedly great system. This is true of any system that will let a large proportion of the planet living in misery for so long. There is no point in celebrating wealth for the few and misery for so many.

zer00eyz 3y ago
> For millions of people living in poverty and homeless around the world and in the US itself, the capitalism system is a failure. You're blaming an economic framework for what in the majority of cases is failure of government. Frankly half a million homeless Americans is far better than the current alternatives of Russia or China... It isn't a very good point. in 1950 the average American home was 900 ish sq ft. Today the average American has 900sqf of space IN their home. We went from united fruit (misery where governments were weak) to fruit, coffee, tea, chocolate, cobalt, nickel... Americans got fat, and everyone else had the same level of suffering (maybe). Candidly it's been "a large proportion of the planet living in misery" forever. We're still the same monkeys who raped and murdered the neanderthals out of existence, we haven't really evolved since we salted the earth at Carthage. Look at the USSR, everyone was going to get a house, and a car and a.... Status wasn't about money it was about who got one first. At a point in Chinese communism status was indicated by pens (how many, if you keep them in a pocket)... The way you got ahead in these systems was graft, bribery and birthright. At least in the US and EU there is some sense of being able to elevate myself and a path to get there. The problem is that some people don't want to take it, they don't want to put the work in. The reality is that their quality of life is going to decline in the continuing global future because there isn't enough to go around. The current trend of wealth leading to decline in population (birth rate below replacement) is fascinating. The US makes up for it with immigration, china and Japan not so much, and Europe is going to have a cultural shift because of it. The next few decades will be interesting. The reality is that we're picking the option that sucks the least. I, am not happy about it, but no one has shown up with a better alternative that WORKS.