5 ms·

Why do you care if other people „start using the Facebook spyware store“? No one is forcing you to use another store. Android has alternative app stores and you

Why do you care if other people „start using the Facebook spyware store“? No one is forcing you to use another store. Android has alternative app stores and you can still use the Google Play Store for everything if you want to.

bee_rider 3y ago
Is DJI still distributing their app as an apk, or are they excluded from everything for some reason?
- jgilias 3y ago
  Well then, don’t use DJI stuff. I’m pretty sure Apple will keep positioning their App Store as the official authorized way to get software for iDevices. I’m also pretty sure that there’s going to be huge inertia there and most of the apps are going to be on App Store still. So your ability to live in a walled garden won’t be affected much. Yes, some apps will move away from the App Store, and I suggest you to vote with your wallet and not use them. I for one absolutely cherish the ability to install software I choose on the device that’s supposedly mine.
  - bee_rider 3y ago
    Sure, this is why I have mixed feeling rather than straight up opposition. Would it be nice to be able to install third party apps? I’d like… a GNU store, maybe a Suckless store, Panic is decent. There are pros, it isn’t all cons. There is a downside, though, snooping companies like Facebook and Google are going to use this to circumvent Apple’s privacy rules. I disagree that this is a case of “vote with your wallet.” I already voted with my wallet by opting into a less open ecosystem for my phone. In general, individuals voting with their wallets have limited reach, this is why people do things like join unions or co-ops. It was good to have at least one popular platform that enforced at least some bare minimum standards that we could opt in to, that most app authors wanted to support.
    - idle_zealot 3y ago
      > In general, individuals voting with their wallets have limited reach, this is why people do things like join unions or co-ops Correct. There are two problems here: 1. Apple won't let people install the software they want on their phones 2. Lots of companies want to get their software installed on your phone by whatever means to control it and turn it against your interests Both of these are bad. The DMA fixes 1, but HN users consistently complain that in doing so it will prevent Apple from mitigating 2. But relying on a company like Apple to stop other companies from abusing users is not a reasonable state of things. People should, through collective action (probably a law) prevent this abuse. And the DMA does not preclude this.
      - bee_rider 3y ago
        Maybe living in the US has made me unnecessarily pessimistic about the likelihood of having consumer protection laws make that last step. I’d be happy to be wrong but I suspect we’ll end up in the local pessimism.
        jgilias 3y ago
        Oh, but then you don’t have anything to worry about. As far as I understand nothing will change in the US regarding App Store policies. It’s just the EU where this would apply.
- alpaca128 3y ago
  I can find official DJI apps on both iOS and Android. So they optionally offer an apk download, just like WhatsApp did for years.
never_inline 3y ago
5-6 years ago, when smartphones were new in India, ShareIt was most popular application for sharing files across phones. It's an ad-ridden piece of spyware. Because everyone were using ShareIt to share music and photos, and I refused to use it out of paranoia and a general dislike of intrusive ads, I got some reputation of being the "weird nerd". Thankfully Google Files got popular later. It's pretty easy to imagine how a bad application like ShareIt or TikTok may be required to be considered socially normal.
- HumblyTossed 3y ago
  > I got some reputation of being the "weird nerd". So what!? Who cares what other people think? "Oh, gosh, you're the weird one who won't jump off a bridge!" Damn right!
  - npteljes 3y ago
    People care what other people think, it's how humans work. If this is missing, it usually shows up in behavior where one routinely hurts themselves or others. Another thing to consider is that when people casually leave someone out. For example, they regularly share their experience on a platform, because most of their friends is on that platform. If someone is not on that platform, they get left out of that experience sharing, if someone doesn't proactively reaching out to them, which I'd say is rare. This leads to the non-majority getting more and more isolated from the rest of the society. Another angle is when people in power, businesses, or other significant figures like teachers exclusively use such platform. If the kindergarten instructions are on Whatsapp, the young parent better install that, fast. This is all related to the network effect, whereby the value of a good or service comes not from the intrinsic value of the thing itself, but rather of its users. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect
  - never_inline 3y ago
    The obvious disadvantage is I couldn't get music and photos from other people, because they were using shareIt and I couldn't ask them to install and use an OSS alternative. Thanks to Google Files / Android NearBy share, today ShareIt has practically disappeared.
dontlaugh 3y ago
Because they'll be friends and family. Or just have some of my data because I talked to them. Anyone being insecure means everyone is (somewhat) insecure. Of course, "side-loading" should still be possible if it has sufficient barriers for casual users.

bee_rider 3y ago

Is DJI still distributing their app as an apk, or are they excluded from everything for some reason?

jgilias 3y ago
Well then, don’t use DJI stuff. I’m pretty sure Apple will keep positioning their App Store as the official authorized way to get software for iDevices. I’m also pretty sure that there’s going to be huge inertia there and most of the apps are going to be on App Store still. So your ability to live in a walled garden won’t be affected much. Yes, some apps will move away from the App Store, and I suggest you to vote with your wallet and not use them. I for one absolutely cherish the ability to install software I choose on the device that’s supposedly mine.
- bee_rider 3y ago
  Sure, this is why I have mixed feeling rather than straight up opposition. Would it be nice to be able to install third party apps? I’d like… a GNU store, maybe a Suckless store, Panic is decent. There are pros, it isn’t all cons. There is a downside, though, snooping companies like Facebook and Google are going to use this to circumvent Apple’s privacy rules. I disagree that this is a case of “vote with your wallet.” I already voted with my wallet by opting into a less open ecosystem for my phone. In general, individuals voting with their wallets have limited reach, this is why people do things like join unions or co-ops. It was good to have at least one popular platform that enforced at least some bare minimum standards that we could opt in to, that most app authors wanted to support.
  - idle_zealot 3y ago
    > In general, individuals voting with their wallets have limited reach, this is why people do things like join unions or co-ops Correct. There are two problems here: 1. Apple won't let people install the software they want on their phones 2. Lots of companies want to get their software installed on your phone by whatever means to control it and turn it against your interests Both of these are bad. The DMA fixes 1, but HN users consistently complain that in doing so it will prevent Apple from mitigating 2. But relying on a company like Apple to stop other companies from abusing users is not a reasonable state of things. People should, through collective action (probably a law) prevent this abuse. And the DMA does not preclude this.
    - bee_rider 3y ago
      Maybe living in the US has made me unnecessarily pessimistic about the likelihood of having consumer protection laws make that last step. I’d be happy to be wrong but I suspect we’ll end up in the local pessimism.
      - jgilias 3y ago
        Oh, but then you don’t have anything to worry about. As far as I understand nothing will change in the US regarding App Store policies. It’s just the EU where this would apply.
alpaca128 3y ago
I can find official DJI apps on both iOS and Android. So they optionally offer an apk download, just like WhatsApp did for years.

never_inline 3y ago

5-6 years ago, when smartphones were new in India, ShareIt was most popular application for sharing files across phones. It's an ad-ridden piece of spyware. Because everyone were using ShareIt to share music and photos, and I refused to use it out of paranoia and a general dislike of intrusive ads, I got some reputation of being the "weird nerd". Thankfully Google Files got popular later. It's pretty easy to imagine how a bad application like ShareIt or TikTok may be required to be considered socially normal.

HumblyTossed 3y ago
> I got some reputation of being the "weird nerd". So what!? Who cares what other people think? "Oh, gosh, you're the weird one who won't jump off a bridge!" Damn right!
- npteljes 3y ago
  People care what other people think, it's how humans work. If this is missing, it usually shows up in behavior where one routinely hurts themselves or others. Another thing to consider is that when people casually leave someone out. For example, they regularly share their experience on a platform, because most of their friends is on that platform. If someone is not on that platform, they get left out of that experience sharing, if someone doesn't proactively reaching out to them, which I'd say is rare. This leads to the non-majority getting more and more isolated from the rest of the society. Another angle is when people in power, businesses, or other significant figures like teachers exclusively use such platform. If the kindergarten instructions are on Whatsapp, the young parent better install that, fast. This is all related to the network effect, whereby the value of a good or service comes not from the intrinsic value of the thing itself, but rather of its users. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect
- never_inline 3y ago
  The obvious disadvantage is I couldn't get music and photos from other people, because they were using shareIt and I couldn't ask them to install and use an OSS alternative. Thanks to Google Files / Android NearBy share, today ShareIt has practically disappeared.

dontlaugh 3y ago

Because they'll be friends and family. Or just have some of my data because I talked to them. Anyone being insecure means everyone is (somewhat) insecure. Of course, "side-loading" should still be possible if it has sufficient barriers for casual users.