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I don't care about developers needs in the slightest. As a user I want there to be a single App Store on the iPhone and not the horrible mess like Windows with

by bni 3y ago

I don't care about developers needs in the slightest. As a user I want there to be a single App Store on the iPhone and not the horrible mess like Windows with everyone having their own store/launcher.

eric__cartman 3y ago
I doubt that'll happen. Android has had the possibility to create alternative app stores since the very beginning and even though there are other stores like F-Droid or whatever Samsung calls their bloatware nowadays almost no one uses them. Apple will not bloat their devices with that crap (talking about the Samsung stuff F-Droid is great and I'd love to see an equivalent for iPhones) from the factory and the vast majority of users will still use the default because it's what they are accustomed to and what's recommended by the manufacturer. All mainstream apps will remain in the Apple store and everything will be pretty much the same with the ability to side-load whatever you please to the device you bought.
- The_Colonel 3y ago
  Google Play is much less restrictive. You can download real Firefox from there, so there's no point using a different app store for that. This might be a good side effect - to compete with other app stores (to discourage users from installing them), they might ease up the restrictions.
- cozzyd 3y ago
  Does the App Store still ban GPL apps? If so, F-Droid is even more needed on iDevices...
makeitdouble 3y ago
Can't you avoid the horrible mess on windows by not installing any store you don't want ? I assume you're thinking about Steam for instance ? Forgo Steam, and you're back to the iPhone situation where you only get a small portion of the ecosystem in nice and clean walled garden. You're in the mess only if you care about getting the full choice of applications, which Apple will never allow on its own.
- faet 3y ago
  Even with steam I can buy a game on steam and install it on steam. Then when I go run it, I need to first install another company's launcher. This includes signing up, confirming my email, etc. Even single player games will require you launch, sign up, and auth with EA's servers before you can play said game.
  - makeitdouble 3y ago
    Is all of this worse than not playing the game at all ? I don't play any EA games so I don't know how it feels on each platform, but the games I care about on steam are just not available, or have been extremely cut down on the other platforms, so it's not like there's an equivalent polished experience to fall back on.
ThatPlayer 3y ago
My issue with that is Apple's own polices aren't about consumer wants. Look at how they limit Steam Link and Netflix to prevent payment from customers. That doesn't help consumers in any way, but just Apple wanting more control and fees. Then it forces consumers to use a browser to pay like Netflix or Spotify, that consumers have no way of knowing about because the app can't mention it. Or have the entire app as a PWA like Xbox Cloud Streaming and Geforce Now because Apple don't care about the single App Store either, so I'm forced to find the "PWA app store". So even without caring about developers, I think this monopoly needs to be regulated. The other way to regulate it would be to force Apple App Store to carry all these, and allow all these different payments. I think you'd agree with me that that'd be even worse.
- turquoisevar 3y ago
  In general it’s bit of a give and take. Yes sure Apple prevents certain things that some consumers might want, but they also introduce and nudge (if not outright require) developers towards practices that are pro-consumer. Family sharing and being able to share purchases with 6 family members is such a move. Another would be universal purchases that give you access to iPad/Mac/watch apps. Easy refunds is also one that comes to mind or preventing developers from granular targeting of devices, motivating that developers put out apps that don’t just work on the latest iPhone with the big screen. > Look at how they limit Steam Link and Netflix to prevent payment from customers. That doesn't help consumers in any way, but just Apple wanting more control and fees. Then it forces consumers to use a browser to pay like Netflix or Spotify, that consumers have no way of knowing about because the app can't mention it. Eh… there are customers that prevent to have all their payments through the App Store so they can manage subscriptions at one place and don’t have to deal with dark patterns. Also keep in mind that Spotify and Netflix are free to offer IAP in addition to their payment via their website and direct customers to their website to sign up (Netflix does this), but neither Spotify nor Netflix want to offer the option of IAP. They prefer to lose out on new subscriptions directly via the app, in favor of nudging people to their website to sign up and pay via the website. > Or have the entire app as a PWA like Xbox Cloud Streaming and Geforce Now because Apple don't care about the single App Store either, so I'm forced to find the "PWA app store". Not sure if I follow. But both the concept of Xbox Cloud Streaming and GeForce Now is allowed as app, provided they submit app containers for individual games so they can review it on a per game basis. But PWA support is also offered, Amazon Luna worked closely with Apple to get it working smoothly in Safari for example. > So even without caring about developers, I think this monopoly needs to be regulated. The other way to regulate it would be to force Apple App Store to carry all these, and allow all these different payments. I think you'd agree with me that that'd be even worse. Personally I don’t think regulation is necessary because Apple hasn’t abused its market position. Many of these restrictive rules were set at the introduction of the App Store when Apple was a nobody in the market and everyone was applauding how much better it was then what was known at the time. Since then they haven’t tightened the reigns, instead they’ve introduced a lower commission rate for renewals after the first year and introduced a small business program with lower commissions. It is because they didn’t abuse their newly gained market position to strangle developers that I think regulation isn’t necessary, it would be weird and unjust to start regulations just because they’ve grown despite the rules that are now considered a problem.
myaccountonhn 3y ago
I'd love to use Firefox on my iPhone with proper adblock. Alas, Apple will not permit me.

by bni 3y ago

eric__cartman 3y ago

I doubt that'll happen. Android has had the possibility to create alternative app stores since the very beginning and even though there are other stores like F-Droid or whatever Samsung calls their bloatware nowadays almost no one uses them. Apple will not bloat their devices with that crap (talking about the Samsung stuff F-Droid is great and I'd love to see an equivalent for iPhones) from the factory and the vast majority of users will still use the default because it's what they are accustomed to and what's recommended by the manufacturer. All mainstream apps will remain in the Apple store and everything will be pretty much the same with the ability to side-load whatever you please to the device you bought.

The_Colonel 3y ago
Google Play is much less restrictive. You can download real Firefox from there, so there's no point using a different app store for that. This might be a good side effect - to compete with other app stores (to discourage users from installing them), they might ease up the restrictions.
cozzyd 3y ago
Does the App Store still ban GPL apps? If so, F-Droid is even more needed on iDevices...

makeitdouble 3y ago

Can't you avoid the horrible mess on windows by not installing any store you don't want ? I assume you're thinking about Steam for instance ? Forgo Steam, and you're back to the iPhone situation where you only get a small portion of the ecosystem in nice and clean walled garden. You're in the mess only if you care about getting the full choice of applications, which Apple will never allow on its own.

faet 3y ago
Even with steam I can buy a game on steam and install it on steam. Then when I go run it, I need to first install another company's launcher. This includes signing up, confirming my email, etc. Even single player games will require you launch, sign up, and auth with EA's servers before you can play said game.
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  Is all of this worse than not playing the game at all ? I don't play any EA games so I don't know how it feels on each platform, but the games I care about on steam are just not available, or have been extremely cut down on the other platforms, so it's not like there's an equivalent polished experience to fall back on.

ThatPlayer 3y ago

My issue with that is Apple's own polices aren't about consumer wants. Look at how they limit Steam Link and Netflix to prevent payment from customers. That doesn't help consumers in any way, but just Apple wanting more control and fees. Then it forces consumers to use a browser to pay like Netflix or Spotify, that consumers have no way of knowing about because the app can't mention it. Or have the entire app as a PWA like Xbox Cloud Streaming and Geforce Now because Apple don't care about the single App Store either, so I'm forced to find the "PWA app store". So even without caring about developers, I think this monopoly needs to be regulated. The other way to regulate it would be to force Apple App Store to carry all these, and allow all these different payments. I think you'd agree with me that that'd be even worse.

turquoisevar 3y ago
In general it’s bit of a give and take. Yes sure Apple prevents certain things that some consumers might want, but they also introduce and nudge (if not outright require) developers towards practices that are pro-consumer. Family sharing and being able to share purchases with 6 family members is such a move. Another would be universal purchases that give you access to iPad/Mac/watch apps. Easy refunds is also one that comes to mind or preventing developers from granular targeting of devices, motivating that developers put out apps that don’t just work on the latest iPhone with the big screen. > Look at how they limit Steam Link and Netflix to prevent payment from customers. That doesn't help consumers in any way, but just Apple wanting more control and fees. Then it forces consumers to use a browser to pay like Netflix or Spotify, that consumers have no way of knowing about because the app can't mention it. Eh… there are customers that prevent to have all their payments through the App Store so they can manage subscriptions at one place and don’t have to deal with dark patterns. Also keep in mind that Spotify and Netflix are free to offer IAP in addition to their payment via their website and direct customers to their website to sign up (Netflix does this), but neither Spotify nor Netflix want to offer the option of IAP. They prefer to lose out on new subscriptions directly via the app, in favor of nudging people to their website to sign up and pay via the website. > Or have the entire app as a PWA like Xbox Cloud Streaming and Geforce Now because Apple don't care about the single App Store either, so I'm forced to find the "PWA app store". Not sure if I follow. But both the concept of Xbox Cloud Streaming and GeForce Now is allowed as app, provided they submit app containers for individual games so they can review it on a per game basis. But PWA support is also offered, Amazon Luna worked closely with Apple to get it working smoothly in Safari for example. > So even without caring about developers, I think this monopoly needs to be regulated. The other way to regulate it would be to force Apple App Store to carry all these, and allow all these different payments. I think you'd agree with me that that'd be even worse. Personally I don’t think regulation is necessary because Apple hasn’t abused its market position. Many of these restrictive rules were set at the introduction of the App Store when Apple was a nobody in the market and everyone was applauding how much better it was then what was known at the time. Since then they haven’t tightened the reigns, instead they’ve introduced a lower commission rate for renewals after the first year and introduced a small business program with lower commissions. It is because they didn’t abuse their newly gained market position to strangle developers that I think regulation isn’t necessary, it would be weird and unjust to start regulations just because they’ve grown despite the rules that are now considered a problem.

myaccountonhn 3y ago

I'd love to use Firefox on my iPhone with proper adblock. Alas, Apple will not permit me.