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Now that Stanford and Cal are in the ACC, there will be vastly more air travel, having environmental impact and lost time for academic study, which these two un

by k310 3y ago

Now that Stanford and Cal are in the ACC, there will be vastly more air travel, having environmental impact and lost time for academic study, which these two universities actually care about, and consequent fatigue for the players. Zoom classes on the long flights, or sleep? Same for other left (over) coast teams, but less impact.

Balgair 3y ago
As far as I knew, the plan for Cal/Stanford was to have all their non money making sports games (outside of their rivalry) at Southern Methodist in Texas. So the football and basketball games were to be played 'normally', but lacrosse and soccer, for example, were to be at SMU. I'd also heard that a lot of the 'lesser' sports were just going to be keeping on with the PAC12 league anyways, things like water polo which the ACC pretty much doesn't play. That said, with FSU really trying to get out of the ACC, who knows. But you do bring up a good point on the travel times. Most of the 'lesser' sports' players are at the universities for the academics. Especially Stanford due to their admissions model. Take a player in a sport that is an Olympic sport, who now has access to some funds from the NIL. Say swimming or something. They get a lot of cash from Speedo for the NIL as they are likely to win some medals. Now they can hire a real law firm to argue for them against the army of lawyers from the school and they now have a real shot at winning. The title-9 violations from these long distance travel arrangements may not be de jure but a good lawyer can argue that they are de facto violations. And now those schools are paying big money out. And now they can't just cancel all sports other than the money makers because these athletes now have access to real money and real lawyers. What a mess!
csa 3y ago
I’m guessing that you grossly underestimate the academic support for athletes. 1. Most athletes take fewer and easier classes during their season, or the main part of their season. Missing credit hours can be made up for during the summer, which sometimes have easier classes. 2. Many athletes take easier majors in general. 3. Athletes have access to free tutors. Sometimes these tutors help, sometimes they help a lot, sometimes they just do the work for the athlete. I imagine that the ethics line is adhered to a bit more frequently at places like Cal and Stanford, but sometimes it’s a blurry line. 4. Athletic departments and athletes know which majors and which professors are easy to deal with for things like travel and workload. Word gets around. Of all the things to worry about, the academic side for the athlete would be the least of my worries.
- Animats 3y ago
  > Word gets around. It's more organized than that. The Stanford Daily once uncovered the football team's official list of easy courses.[1] Stanford also has the Academic Athletic Resource Center, to help varsity athletes make it through Stanford.[2] "Student-athletes may avail themselves of 2 hours of tutoring per class per week for any reason." [1] https://stanforddaily.com/2011/03/09/1046687/ https://stanforddaily.com/2011/03/09/1046687/ [2] https://advising.stanford.edu/current-students/student-athletes https://advising.stanford.edu/current-students/student-athle...
- disposition2 3y ago
  Maybe OP, despite the article being about college football, was considering how the realignment might affect athletes in other sports? For college football, it’s only ~12 games a season and they typically are played at or near the weekend. But for many other sports, the schedule is heavier and played throughout the week. I believe, as maybe OP did, the college football realignment (along with its many other faults) will potentially more detrimental to the athletes in other sports.
- rented_mule 3y ago
  My nephew plays football at a university in a Power Five (now Power Four?) conference. So far, he's experienced much of what you called out. But, they have held him to a far higher academic standard than I expected. He went to junior college first. After his first year, his current university brought him to campus a few times for recruiting purposes, but they didn't end up making him an offer because of his grades. A year later, his grades were up, and he got an offer from that university. At this university, bad grades will cause you to be dropped from the team and lose your scholarship, no matter how big a star you are. They drill this into the players and make it clear that they owe it to their teammates to keep their grades up. I didn't expect that, and I assume it's far from universal at this level, but I'm glad to see it. It's also a great opportunity for my nephew. He and his parents don't have the resources for an education of this caliber (his parents are both teachers), but he is getting it because of football. And he's getting much more active support in that education (through things like the tutoring mentioned above). He'd love to play professionally. Now that he's the wise old age of 20, he understands how low the odds are, and he's making sure he gets an education that will lead to opportunities for a good non-athletic career. Not all of his teammates have that clarity, but he says a lot of them do. One of his teammates graduated before his football eligibility was used up, so he's now getting a master’s degree. You can argue that it's not fair that football players get so many more resources thrown at them. But at this level, they are a huge source of funding for the university. Through things I've heard from his coaches (I've been lucky enough to meet the head coach, the offensive coordinator, and a few others), my guess is that the university brings in somewhere in the neighborhood of $100M/year from football and spends something like 30% of that on football and support for the players. That 30% is seen as protecting the rest of the $100M (if the team doesn't do well, that money is at risk). These numbers are for a university that is not a perennial top 20 team, so I'm sure the numbers can be significantly higher for the top football programs.

by k310 3y ago

Balgair 3y ago

As far as I knew, the plan for Cal/Stanford was to have all their non money making sports games (outside of their rivalry) at Southern Methodist in Texas. So the football and basketball games were to be played 'normally', but lacrosse and soccer, for example, were to be at SMU. I'd also heard that a lot of the 'lesser' sports were just going to be keeping on with the PAC12 league anyways, things like water polo which the ACC pretty much doesn't play. That said, with FSU really trying to get out of the ACC, who knows. But you do bring up a good point on the travel times. Most of the 'lesser' sports' players are at the universities for the academics. Especially Stanford due to their admissions model. Take a player in a sport that is an Olympic sport, who now has access to some funds from the NIL. Say swimming or something. They get a lot of cash from Speedo for the NIL as they are likely to win some medals. Now they can hire a real law firm to argue for them against the army of lawyers from the school and they now have a real shot at winning. The title-9 violations from these long distance travel arrangements may not be de jure but a good lawyer can argue that they are de facto violations. And now those schools are paying big money out. And now they can't just cancel all sports other than the money makers because these athletes now have access to real money and real lawyers. What a mess!

csa 3y ago

I’m guessing that you grossly underestimate the academic support for athletes. 1. Most athletes take fewer and easier classes during their season, or the main part of their season. Missing credit hours can be made up for during the summer, which sometimes have easier classes. 2. Many athletes take easier majors in general. 3. Athletes have access to free tutors. Sometimes these tutors help, sometimes they help a lot, sometimes they just do the work for the athlete. I imagine that the ethics line is adhered to a bit more frequently at places like Cal and Stanford, but sometimes it’s a blurry line. 4. Athletic departments and athletes know which majors and which professors are easy to deal with for things like travel and workload. Word gets around. Of all the things to worry about, the academic side for the athlete would be the least of my worries.

Animats 3y ago
> Word gets around. It's more organized than that. The Stanford Daily once uncovered the football team's official list of easy courses.[1] Stanford also has the Academic Athletic Resource Center, to help varsity athletes make it through Stanford.[2] "Student-athletes may avail themselves of 2 hours of tutoring per class per week for any reason." [1] https://stanforddaily.com/2011/03/09/1046687/ https://stanforddaily.com/2011/03/09/1046687/ [2] https://advising.stanford.edu/current-students/student-athletes https://advising.stanford.edu/current-students/student-athle...
disposition2 3y ago
Maybe OP, despite the article being about college football, was considering how the realignment might affect athletes in other sports? For college football, it’s only ~12 games a season and they typically are played at or near the weekend. But for many other sports, the schedule is heavier and played throughout the week. I believe, as maybe OP did, the college football realignment (along with its many other faults) will potentially more detrimental to the athletes in other sports.
rented_mule 3y ago
My nephew plays football at a university in a Power Five (now Power Four?) conference. So far, he's experienced much of what you called out. But, they have held him to a far higher academic standard than I expected. He went to junior college first. After his first year, his current university brought him to campus a few times for recruiting purposes, but they didn't end up making him an offer because of his grades. A year later, his grades were up, and he got an offer from that university. At this university, bad grades will cause you to be dropped from the team and lose your scholarship, no matter how big a star you are. They drill this into the players and make it clear that they owe it to their teammates to keep their grades up. I didn't expect that, and I assume it's far from universal at this level, but I'm glad to see it. It's also a great opportunity for my nephew. He and his parents don't have the resources for an education of this caliber (his parents are both teachers), but he is getting it because of football. And he's getting much more active support in that education (through things like the tutoring mentioned above). He'd love to play professionally. Now that he's the wise old age of 20, he understands how low the odds are, and he's making sure he gets an education that will lead to opportunities for a good non-athletic career. Not all of his teammates have that clarity, but he says a lot of them do. One of his teammates graduated before his football eligibility was used up, so he's now getting a master’s degree. You can argue that it's not fair that football players get so many more resources thrown at them. But at this level, they are a huge source of funding for the university. Through things I've heard from his coaches (I've been lucky enough to meet the head coach, the offensive coordinator, and a few others), my guess is that the university brings in somewhere in the neighborhood of $100M/year from football and spends something like 30% of that on football and support for the players. That 30% is seen as protecting the rest of the $100M (if the team doesn't do well, that money is at risk). These numbers are for a university that is not a perennial top 20 team, so I'm sure the numbers can be significantly higher for the top football programs.