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Shenzhen, where China builds electronics, is a 17-million population city where such electronic shops can be built. If we in the USA are supposed to compete ag

Shenzhen, where China builds electronics, is a 17-million population city where such electronic shops can be built. If we in the USA are supposed to compete against that, we need to start thinking about how to build our cities or culture to provide similar features to Chinese society. Not like their human rights or whatever, but their specific production specs. How quickly you can physically shop in Shenzhen in person to look for parts, how easy it is to share designs in the engineering community, the economies of scale and so forth. We are getting our ass kicked on electronics production. We really should think about emulating China now on this subject.

Workaccount2 3y ago
Emulate China? China emulated us. The US had all that 100 years ago. We are passed that stage and bringing it back is going to have to be artificial and forced. And probably won't even work. China is not a USA that figured out cheap manufacturing. China is an emerging economy that reaped the benefits of being an emerging economy (lax regulation + borderline slave labor). The same way (generally) the USA did 100 years ago to get to the advanced economy stage it is at today.
- dragontamer 3y ago
  There's no equivalent to JLCPCB in the USA, only in China. There are no legions of pre-packed pick-and-place machines in the USA that are hooked up to internet orders so that a machine handles nearly the entire process from PCB-manufacturing to PCB-Assembly / Pick-and-place, and then shipped out to you for less than $100. Seriously: checkout the PCB and Assembly prices here: https://jlcpcb.com/ https://jlcpcb.com/ Yes, there's some degree of low wages going on here. But there's *ALSO* benefits to scale. Internet-scale production and centralization means they can take orders and achieve efficiencies completely impossible in the USA right now. Now as EEs (be it hobbyist or professional), we need to start thinking about this difference in manufacturing flexibility. USA can keep up with China in terms of overall manufacturing (ex: if someone orders 100,000+ boards and assembly, USA can somewhat compete). But when it comes down to smaller orders, China is just far more flexible. In ways suggesting far superior automation (not just cheaper labor) Really, think about these prices. Its obvious that jlcpcb just has a pre-made pipeline of pick-and-place machines covering the 500,000 in-house parts, and thus can offer extremely cheap assembly of those specific reels as its likely all automated. ---------- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ZTn1t3Lsc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ZTn1t3Lsc
  - Workaccount2 3y ago
    >The US had all that 100 years ago. We are passed that stage and bringing it back is going to have to be artificial and forced.
    - dragontamer 3y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ZTn1t3Lsc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ZTn1t3Lsc This ain't early 1900s bub. This is China today. This is what we're competing against, and people need to wake up to the fact that we've fallen behind.
      - Workaccount2 3y ago
        >We are passed that stage and bringing it back is going to have to be artificial and forced
        dragontamer 3y ago
        Look at the damn Youtube video. That's not "slave labor". That's manufacturing and automation. USA is behind in this kind of training, schooling, and industrial understanding. That's not some unskilled bozo they picked off the street. That's a Chinese engineer, likely trained from a University, who has Electronics knowledge likely exceeding many American Engineers (especially in the field of manufacturing that we're falling behind on). They program computers to assemble these devices. They have web-programmers to convert our Gerber files or KiCAD files into pick-and-place primitives. They have optimized assembly lines to minimize human error and maximize automation. ------ There's a few shops in the USA that can do this sort of stuff, but no one close to the scale, reliability, or price of JLCPCB right now. That's the problem. Its not "slave labor" or "low-economy" crap that they're beating us in anymore. Its high-tech, advanced economy automation. Do you think anyone in the USA has a pick-and-place machine / PCB-assembly line that well made? And flexible enough to handle random internet orders of quantity 10?
        3y ago

Workaccount2 3y ago

Emulate China? China emulated us. The US had all that 100 years ago. We are passed that stage and bringing it back is going to have to be artificial and forced. And probably won't even work. China is not a USA that figured out cheap manufacturing. China is an emerging economy that reaped the benefits of being an emerging economy (lax regulation + borderline slave labor). The same way (generally) the USA did 100 years ago to get to the advanced economy stage it is at today.

dragontamer 3y ago
There's no equivalent to JLCPCB in the USA, only in China. There are no legions of pre-packed pick-and-place machines in the USA that are hooked up to internet orders so that a machine handles nearly the entire process from PCB-manufacturing to PCB-Assembly / Pick-and-place, and then shipped out to you for less than $100. Seriously: checkout the PCB and Assembly prices here: https://jlcpcb.com/ https://jlcpcb.com/ Yes, there's some degree of low wages going on here. But there's *ALSO* benefits to scale. Internet-scale production and centralization means they can take orders and achieve efficiencies completely impossible in the USA right now. Now as EEs (be it hobbyist or professional), we need to start thinking about this difference in manufacturing flexibility. USA can keep up with China in terms of overall manufacturing (ex: if someone orders 100,000+ boards and assembly, USA can somewhat compete). But when it comes down to smaller orders, China is just far more flexible. In ways suggesting far superior automation (not just cheaper labor) Really, think about these prices. Its obvious that jlcpcb just has a pre-made pipeline of pick-and-place machines covering the 500,000 in-house parts, and thus can offer extremely cheap assembly of those specific reels as its likely all automated. ---------- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ZTn1t3Lsc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ZTn1t3Lsc
- Workaccount2 3y ago
  >The US had all that 100 years ago. We are passed that stage and bringing it back is going to have to be artificial and forced.
  - dragontamer 3y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ZTn1t3Lsc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ZTn1t3Lsc This ain't early 1900s bub. This is China today. This is what we're competing against, and people need to wake up to the fact that we've fallen behind.
    - Workaccount2 3y ago
      >We are passed that stage and bringing it back is going to have to be artificial and forced
      - dragontamer 3y ago
        Look at the damn Youtube video. That's not "slave labor". That's manufacturing and automation. USA is behind in this kind of training, schooling, and industrial understanding. That's not some unskilled bozo they picked off the street. That's a Chinese engineer, likely trained from a University, who has Electronics knowledge likely exceeding many American Engineers (especially in the field of manufacturing that we're falling behind on). They program computers to assemble these devices. They have web-programmers to convert our Gerber files or KiCAD files into pick-and-place primitives. They have optimized assembly lines to minimize human error and maximize automation. ------ There's a few shops in the USA that can do this sort of stuff, but no one close to the scale, reliability, or price of JLCPCB right now. That's the problem. Its not "slave labor" or "low-economy" crap that they're beating us in anymore. Its high-tech, advanced economy automation. Do you think anyone in the USA has a pick-and-place machine / PCB-assembly line that well made? And flexible enough to handle random internet orders of quantity 10?
        3y ago