4 ms·

9 minutes ago: > Since this has now been posted to HN, I'll be locking this thread. This bugtracker is a work place, not a discussion forum. We have a bad fam

9 minutes ago: > Since this has now been posted to HN, I'll be locking this thread. This bugtracker is a work place, not a discussion forum. We have a bad fame.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
tmtvl 3y ago
Our bad reputation is not entirely undeserved, some of us are not as well behaved as others.
- Uptrenda 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - augustohp 3y ago
    Although I agree his words could've been chosen more carefully, they come from someone used to work with computers. Not his forte.
  - jraph 3y ago
    OTOH do they need more input from external contributors? They have everything they need. google.com serves '<!DOCTYPE html>' to Firefox and that's the end of the webcompat story. Google needs to fix this. Full stop. Given this, I can see how this thing can attract low quality comments and have a very low chance of receiving interesting insight. Now, since we are on HN I'll provide my one low quality comment on this: I guess it's a silly mistake that's not intended, but still feels like another whoops [1]. Also: come on Google, seriously? Don't you have QA for such things? [1] https://www.zdnet.com/article/former-mozilla-exec-google-has-sabotaged-firefox-for-years/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/former-mozilla-exec-google-has...
  - jgraham 3y ago
    (I work on WebCompat at Mozilla) There are various people whose job involves triaging issues filed on that repo, and communicating with the issue authors where necessary e.g. to figure out additional steps required to reproduce the reported problem. The point of that effort is exactly because we value reports of site breakage so highly, and want to ensure that people reporting them have a good experience. Unfortunately when a bug report (not just this in this repo, but almost anywhere) hits (almost any) social media there's a high chance of the suddenly large audience making comments that aren't at all actionable in fixing the issue. In this case it seems highly unlikely that anyone can add additional information that will allow a faster resolution, whereas there was already one off-topic/unactionable comment at the time the issue was locked. So if we leave the issue open, it has the downside of disrupting our normal workflows, and taking attention away from fixing either the problem at hand, or any other issues that currently require our attention. To me that significantly outweighs the potential upside of leaving it open to "make people feel welcome". Of course, like many things in life, it's not a mathematical problem where you can derive a correct answer, but a set of tradeoffs based on experience, and therefore reasonable people may come to different conclusions.
    - lightedman 3y ago
      "There are various people whose job involves triaging issues filed on that repo, and communicating with the issue authors where necessary e.g. to figure out additional steps required to reproduce the reported problem." And exactly where are the various QUALITY CONTROL testers that should've caught such a dead-simple problem like "This won't work with Google Search" before it ever happened in the first place?
      - denschub 3y ago
        This issue was caused by Google on their server-side, without any relation to a change in Firefox, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to yell at my Mozilla-colleague.
        lightedman 3y ago
        As a quality control technician, I have several tests, including checking against third party resources for compatibility. If I were a web browser coder, making sure my software worked with the major websites of the internet would be the FIRST thing to test. I don't release until I know it works. This exact same mindset is why I make the expensive stuff where I work, and nobody else. I'm also not yelling. That you think text is yelling is quite something I'll never understand from anyone. Two capitalized words isn't yelling.
  - doix 3y ago
    Oh come on. As soon as any issue hits any "social media" site, the comments turn to shit with people inserting their own clever meme or whatever. The bug is well understood, there's nothing to gain from keeping the issue open and a lot to lose. Getting notifications for "shit posts" is pretty annoying. _Maybe_ they could have avoided explicitly calling out HN and just said "social media" or whatever. But you're really pulling at straws to get offended here. I don't think their an asshole, I think they're pragmatic.
  - bigbillheck 3y ago
    A bit of searching suggests that this individual is the same 'robertsdotpm' who posted that "b-bazinga" comment, or at least is closely associated with them.
    - striking 3y ago
      Good catch. No wonder their comment sounded so defensive, they're the bad guy!
    - temp0826 3y ago
      Not sure why you're getting downvoted. Googlers? Obviously scummy behavior should be highlighted.
      - bigbillheck 3y ago
        > Not sure why you're getting downvoted People will upvote and downvote on this site as they please, and caring about it is a recipe for a bad time.
- politelemon 3y ago
  It's one of those occasional intersections where we are reminded that our reputation within HN comments does not reflect the outside world.
- pwdisswordfishc 3y ago
  [flagged]
msp26 3y ago
Well someone did just write "'now you have two problems' b-bazinga. Software engineering is hard." I don't blame them for the lock.
zozbot234 3y ago
> ... We have a bad fame. HN is too orange.
- Andrex 3y ago
  I switched it to the same color gray as the background. HN actually provides a pref for this in your user settings.
  - doublerabbit 3y ago
    A perk for gaining a certain amount of karma.
    - Andrex 3y ago
      Really? Huh. I've been here 13 years and I'm still learning new things.
hartator 3y ago
Mozilla elitism.
- jraph 3y ago
  Or experience with the internet? Of course outrageous GitHub issues get low quality comments from HN. The guy probably reacted like this because of the dummy comment he marked as off topic and probably made the connection. > 'now you have two problems' b-bazinga. Software engineering is hard. He might have said the same of Reddit, or any social network. It's pretty reasonable and I think he made the right call.
  - denschub 3y ago
    You are 100% correct in your assumptions. This isn't my first incident, and it won't be my last. As much as some folks here want to call me an asshole for that, we have a very good understanding of how this ends if we don't lock comments.
    - shadowgovt 3y ago
      FWIW, good on you for managing the signal responsibly. I have to smirk a bit every time I see the public do this to themselves. The public: "Why are companies never honest? Why is press-release-speak such a space-alien way of communicating?" Also the public: reacts like this when someone takes a simple, clear action and explains it directly. (And yes, I know I'm guilty of broad-strokes reasoning lumping everyone in as "the public" and anthropomorphizing that entity. In this context, doesn't matter. Only takes a few bad actors to wreck the signal).
latexr 3y ago
Locking the issue after it has been posted to any large community is the right call. The respectful users will look at the thread and not comment to not derail the discussion. The fraction of a percent which may have something relevant to contribute probably already did or will find another way to do so if it’s important. The remaining users will post low quality comments for a while then leave forever. Like a flash mob that invades your home, parties for a few hours, then leaves a mess for the regulars to clean up. Can’t blame the owner for preemptively locking the door.
ben_w 3y ago
"Orange site bad" is a bit of a meme. I even heard it IRL at a hacker space in the last few weeks.
lamontcg 3y ago
> This bugtracker is a work place, not a discussion forum. that's actually an excellent way to frame what a bugtracker is actually for. it is about workers getting shit done and its optimized for the people who work the issues. it isn't optimized for the people posting comments on issues. and the fact that a lot of users that have never had to deal with fixing software bugs think it looks like a forum website would explain the impedance mismatch that you often see.
- heresie-dabord 3y ago
  > it is about workers getting shit done and its optimized for the people who work the issues. The above phrase also explains why Social Media is not a bug-tracker. ^_^
  - dylan604 3y ago
    Sadly, it seems to be the only bug tracker or method of getting issues noticed by the tech firms with the issues.
bigbillheck 3y ago
> We have a bad fame. But not one undeserved.
- wharvle 3y ago
  N-Gate summaries were harsh, but fair. Basically spot on.
avgcorrection 3y ago
> This bugtracker is a work place, not a discussion forum. Well, tradeoffs and whatnot with hosting your bugtracker on the most open code platform on the Web. “Conversation limited to contributors until popular site calms down”
lagniappe 3y ago
at least it wasn't a testicle in an egg cup like that other site
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

9 minutes ago: > Since this has now been posted to HN, I'll be locking this thread. This bugtracker is a work place, not a discussion forum. We have a bad fame.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

tmtvl 3y ago

Our bad reputation is not entirely undeserved, some of us are not as well behaved as others.

Uptrenda 3y ago
[flagged]
- augustohp 3y ago
  Although I agree his words could've been chosen more carefully, they come from someone used to work with computers. Not his forte.
- jraph 3y ago
  OTOH do they need more input from external contributors? They have everything they need. google.com serves '<!DOCTYPE html>' to Firefox and that's the end of the webcompat story. Google needs to fix this. Full stop. Given this, I can see how this thing can attract low quality comments and have a very low chance of receiving interesting insight. Now, since we are on HN I'll provide my one low quality comment on this: I guess it's a silly mistake that's not intended, but still feels like another whoops [1]. Also: come on Google, seriously? Don't you have QA for such things? [1] https://www.zdnet.com/article/former-mozilla-exec-google-has-sabotaged-firefox-for-years/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/former-mozilla-exec-google-has...
- jgraham 3y ago
  (I work on WebCompat at Mozilla) There are various people whose job involves triaging issues filed on that repo, and communicating with the issue authors where necessary e.g. to figure out additional steps required to reproduce the reported problem. The point of that effort is exactly because we value reports of site breakage so highly, and want to ensure that people reporting them have a good experience. Unfortunately when a bug report (not just this in this repo, but almost anywhere) hits (almost any) social media there's a high chance of the suddenly large audience making comments that aren't at all actionable in fixing the issue. In this case it seems highly unlikely that anyone can add additional information that will allow a faster resolution, whereas there was already one off-topic/unactionable comment at the time the issue was locked. So if we leave the issue open, it has the downside of disrupting our normal workflows, and taking attention away from fixing either the problem at hand, or any other issues that currently require our attention. To me that significantly outweighs the potential upside of leaving it open to "make people feel welcome". Of course, like many things in life, it's not a mathematical problem where you can derive a correct answer, but a set of tradeoffs based on experience, and therefore reasonable people may come to different conclusions.
  - lightedman 3y ago
    "There are various people whose job involves triaging issues filed on that repo, and communicating with the issue authors where necessary e.g. to figure out additional steps required to reproduce the reported problem." And exactly where are the various QUALITY CONTROL testers that should've caught such a dead-simple problem like "This won't work with Google Search" before it ever happened in the first place?
    - denschub 3y ago
      This issue was caused by Google on their server-side, without any relation to a change in Firefox, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to yell at my Mozilla-colleague.
      - lightedman 3y ago
        As a quality control technician, I have several tests, including checking against third party resources for compatibility. If I were a web browser coder, making sure my software worked with the major websites of the internet would be the FIRST thing to test. I don't release until I know it works. This exact same mindset is why I make the expensive stuff where I work, and nobody else. I'm also not yelling. That you think text is yelling is quite something I'll never understand from anyone. Two capitalized words isn't yelling.
- doix 3y ago
  Oh come on. As soon as any issue hits any "social media" site, the comments turn to shit with people inserting their own clever meme or whatever. The bug is well understood, there's nothing to gain from keeping the issue open and a lot to lose. Getting notifications for "shit posts" is pretty annoying. _Maybe_ they could have avoided explicitly calling out HN and just said "social media" or whatever. But you're really pulling at straws to get offended here. I don't think their an asshole, I think they're pragmatic.
- bigbillheck 3y ago
  A bit of searching suggests that this individual is the same 'robertsdotpm' who posted that "b-bazinga" comment, or at least is closely associated with them.
  - striking 3y ago
    Good catch. No wonder their comment sounded so defensive, they're the bad guy!
  - temp0826 3y ago
    Not sure why you're getting downvoted. Googlers? Obviously scummy behavior should be highlighted.
    - bigbillheck 3y ago
      > Not sure why you're getting downvoted People will upvote and downvote on this site as they please, and caring about it is a recipe for a bad time.
politelemon 3y ago
It's one of those occasional intersections where we are reminded that our reputation within HN comments does not reflect the outside world.
pwdisswordfishc 3y ago
[flagged]

msp26 3y ago

Well someone did just write "'now you have two problems' b-bazinga. Software engineering is hard." I don't blame them for the lock.

zozbot234 3y ago

> ... We have a bad fame. HN is too orange.

Andrex 3y ago
I switched it to the same color gray as the background. HN actually provides a pref for this in your user settings.
- doublerabbit 3y ago
  A perk for gaining a certain amount of karma.
  - Andrex 3y ago
    Really? Huh. I've been here 13 years and I'm still learning new things.

hartator 3y ago

Mozilla elitism.

jraph 3y ago
Or experience with the internet? Of course outrageous GitHub issues get low quality comments from HN. The guy probably reacted like this because of the dummy comment he marked as off topic and probably made the connection. > 'now you have two problems' b-bazinga. Software engineering is hard. He might have said the same of Reddit, or any social network. It's pretty reasonable and I think he made the right call.
- denschub 3y ago
  You are 100% correct in your assumptions. This isn't my first incident, and it won't be my last. As much as some folks here want to call me an asshole for that, we have a very good understanding of how this ends if we don't lock comments.
  - shadowgovt 3y ago
    FWIW, good on you for managing the signal responsibly. I have to smirk a bit every time I see the public do this to themselves. The public: "Why are companies never honest? Why is press-release-speak such a space-alien way of communicating?" Also the public: reacts like this when someone takes a simple, clear action and explains it directly. (And yes, I know I'm guilty of broad-strokes reasoning lumping everyone in as "the public" and anthropomorphizing that entity. In this context, doesn't matter. Only takes a few bad actors to wreck the signal).

latexr 3y ago

Locking the issue after it has been posted to any large community is the right call. The respectful users will look at the thread and not comment to not derail the discussion. The fraction of a percent which may have something relevant to contribute probably already did or will find another way to do so if it’s important. The remaining users will post low quality comments for a while then leave forever. Like a flash mob that invades your home, parties for a few hours, then leaves a mess for the regulars to clean up. Can’t blame the owner for preemptively locking the door.

ben_w 3y ago

"Orange site bad" is a bit of a meme. I even heard it IRL at a hacker space in the last few weeks.

lamontcg 3y ago

> This bugtracker is a work place, not a discussion forum. that's actually an excellent way to frame what a bugtracker is actually for. it is about workers getting shit done and its optimized for the people who work the issues. it isn't optimized for the people posting comments on issues. and the fact that a lot of users that have never had to deal with fixing software bugs think it looks like a forum website would explain the impedance mismatch that you often see.

heresie-dabord 3y ago
> it is about workers getting shit done and its optimized for the people who work the issues. The above phrase also explains why Social Media is not a bug-tracker. ^_^
- dylan604 3y ago
  Sadly, it seems to be the only bug tracker or method of getting issues noticed by the tech firms with the issues.

bigbillheck 3y ago

> We have a bad fame. But not one undeserved.

wharvle 3y ago
N-Gate summaries were harsh, but fair. Basically spot on.

avgcorrection 3y ago

> This bugtracker is a work place, not a discussion forum. Well, tradeoffs and whatnot with hosting your bugtracker on the most open code platform on the Web. “Conversation limited to contributors until popular site calms down”

lagniappe 3y ago

at least it wasn't a testicle in an egg cup like that other site

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]