3 ms·

It's the endless chase of "GDP" points: Somehow, through various constraints and processes it's "better" overall for me and 500 other people to buy a hand tool

by zo1 3y ago

It's the endless chase of "GDP" points: Somehow, through various constraints and processes it's "better" overall for me and 500 other people to buy a hand tool (drill, angle-grinder, saw, etc), than it is for a dozen of such tools to be stocked at a shared-center like a maker/hacker space for us all to use that odd time we need it in the year. 500 tools sold means X% more truck delivery trips, more than Y% of hours worked by dock loaders, Z$ of rented space, A$ of margin added by a supplier, B$ of supplier warehouse space rented, etc etc etc. We've settled on a local-maxima that adds a lot of imaginary "GDP" points while the value is sucked out away from all of the rest of us.

rcxdude 3y ago
There's no local incentive that directly pushes for "more GDP". The dichotomy you present is much more about for mundane tradeoffs, like the cost of renting and maintaining such a collection of tools compared to the cost if buying them, and the preference of people towards personal ownership compared to a communal resource.
bluGill 3y ago
You should get to know your neighbors. Borrowing tools as needed is common when you know people. Most tools you should buy - or get a neighbor to buy. There is a lot of friction going to a maker space for some tool. It is much easier to grab your own drill when you need one than to go elsewhere to get it.
some_random 3y ago
I'm very confused as to what mechanism would be used to compel the closing of hackerspaces on these grounds? Are you proposing that landlords are increasing rent specifically because they want to boost GDP?
inglor_cz 3y ago
What you are describing is basically a coordination problem, not a chase for GDP points. Renting stuff as a business only makes sense if you can ask for reasonably high rent to cover your costs. Very expensive stuff (professional cameras, cars, bridal dresses) meets this criterion. A drill that costs 200 USD doesn't. How much can you ask for a day of rent of such a drill? 10 USD? That covers the cost of keeping the shop open for a few minutes at most. Borrowing/lending stuff between friends makes a lot more sense, but you are limited to a fairly small set of people and you must be socially not-inept not to irk them with unreasonable requests; also, it happens that many people need the same type of object at nearly the same time (a day off with nice weather is great for gardening, so everyone is gardening; whoops, snow has fallen, everyone needs their shovels in the morning).
CamperBob2 3y ago
The value comes into play when I need that saw at 2 AM on a Sunday morning. The one in my toolbox is a LOT more valuable than the one at the hackerspace.
PeterisP 3y ago
No, it's rather that the economy is saying that the overhead and labor to manage renting - the handling of issuing/recovering that dozen tools and the associated issues with payments, damage, fraud/theft, etc - is too large and it's cheaper/more effective to simply mass-manufacture more cheap tools. The renting solution would have more GDP, because it would simply be more expensive - and that's why it doesn't really exist.

by zo1 3y ago

rcxdude 3y ago

There's no local incentive that directly pushes for "more GDP". The dichotomy you present is much more about for mundane tradeoffs, like the cost of renting and maintaining such a collection of tools compared to the cost if buying them, and the preference of people towards personal ownership compared to a communal resource.

bluGill 3y ago

You should get to know your neighbors. Borrowing tools as needed is common when you know people. Most tools you should buy - or get a neighbor to buy. There is a lot of friction going to a maker space for some tool. It is much easier to grab your own drill when you need one than to go elsewhere to get it.

some_random 3y ago

I'm very confused as to what mechanism would be used to compel the closing of hackerspaces on these grounds? Are you proposing that landlords are increasing rent specifically because they want to boost GDP?

inglor_cz 3y ago

What you are describing is basically a coordination problem, not a chase for GDP points. Renting stuff as a business only makes sense if you can ask for reasonably high rent to cover your costs. Very expensive stuff (professional cameras, cars, bridal dresses) meets this criterion. A drill that costs 200 USD doesn't. How much can you ask for a day of rent of such a drill? 10 USD? That covers the cost of keeping the shop open for a few minutes at most. Borrowing/lending stuff between friends makes a lot more sense, but you are limited to a fairly small set of people and you must be socially not-inept not to irk them with unreasonable requests; also, it happens that many people need the same type of object at nearly the same time (a day off with nice weather is great for gardening, so everyone is gardening; whoops, snow has fallen, everyone needs their shovels in the morning).

CamperBob2 3y ago

The value comes into play when I need that saw at 2 AM on a Sunday morning. The one in my toolbox is a LOT more valuable than the one at the hackerspace.

PeterisP 3y ago

No, it's rather that the economy is saying that the overhead and labor to manage renting - the handling of issuing/recovering that dozen tools and the associated issues with payments, damage, fraud/theft, etc - is too large and it's cheaper/more effective to simply mass-manufacture more cheap tools. The renting solution would have more GDP, because it would simply be more expensive - and that's why it doesn't really exist.