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>My local hacker space is struggling to keep its doors open. All my local electronics shops (in the Bay Area!) have closed down. The small independent hardware

>My local hacker space is struggling to keep its doors open. All my local electronics shops (in the Bay Area!) have closed down. The small independent hardware stores are closing down too. I think a lot of this is just because the rent is too damn high. How can a local shop expect to compete against online sellers who don't have nearly as much overhead? Here in Japan, we don't have this problem so much: there are tons of little mom-n-pop shops all over the place. But many factors like rent and zoning help make it viable for small businesses to stay afloat, that wouldn't be able to in America. Here, a business can exist in a 20 m^2 space on the 5th floor of some building that has no parking at all; that's basically illegal in America. I imagine some things like that are similar in Shenzhen. >Bringing chip fabs back is good. It sounds like a good idea, but throwing money at the problem isn't going to magically make a skilled workforce appear that can operate these fabs.

TaylorAlexander 3y ago
Oh yeah, parking minimums are a disaster for many reasons, as is the endless acquisition of property by private equity firms. I currently need about 2000 square feet of industrial space (plasma cutting, welding, work benches, and a small office) and its very hard to find such a small spot! Literally the space in Oakland I previously would have used, American Steel, was bought by a private equity firm, all the small tenants were kicked out, and now they rent 20,000 square feet at a time to big venture capital funded companies: https://48hills.org/2022/04/american-steel-burning-man-artist-community-displaced-redevelopment-gentrification/ https://48hills.org/2022/04/american-steel-burning-man-artis... EDIT: Fun fact, I did approach the building, got the manager's number from someone, and called her. When I said I needed 2000 square feet she actually laughed, said "we typically rent out 20,000 square feet or more", said she would "try to find me something" and then never called me back.
- infthi 3y ago
  if there is a demand for 200sqm space - why wont someone rent 2000 sqm and subrent?
  - shiroiuma 3y ago
    Because that's extra work and risk for a small return, plus local ordinances might not even allow it, or would make it difficult. Being a commercial landlord isn't that easy. And there might be "demand", but not at the prices being offered.
    - katbyte 3y ago
      As with many things “not profitable enough” is a huge detriment to society and a huge flaw with unchecked capitalism when so much wealth accumulates at the top
      - shiroiuma 3y ago
        Sure, but what are you going to do about it when most of your voters keep voting for policies that result in this?
  - zo1 3y ago
    Here's my low-effort snarky response to your question: Pesky Laws, ordinances, labor rules, and MBAs with fancy graphs that say something is "unprofitable".
- mlrtime 3y ago
  You're in the wrong place, this isn't a PE problem. There are industrial spaces near me ~ $6/sq/yr with configurable sizes where you could do all this. This is also 30 minutes from a international airport. It's like complaning that someone can't build a factory in manhattan because real estate firms bought all the land.
  - thereisnospork 3y ago
    >It's like complaning that someone can't build a factory in manhattan because real estate firms bought all the land. People complained good and hard about not being able to open/run a bodega in Manhattan because firms 'bought up all the land' - to the point Mom and pop shops got significant legislative benefits. To everyone's benefit(?)
  - dragontamer 3y ago
    Shenzhen, where China builds electronics, is a 17-million population city where such electronic shops can be built. If we in the USA are supposed to compete against that, we need to start thinking about how to build our cities or culture to provide similar features to Chinese society. Not like their human rights or whatever, but their specific production specs. How quickly you can physically shop in Shenzhen in person to look for parts, how easy it is to share designs in the engineering community, the economies of scale and so forth. We are getting our ass kicked on electronics production. We really should think about emulating China now on this subject.
    - Workaccount2 3y ago
      Emulate China? China emulated us. The US had all that 100 years ago. We are passed that stage and bringing it back is going to have to be artificial and forced. And probably won't even work. China is not a USA that figured out cheap manufacturing. China is an emerging economy that reaped the benefits of being an emerging economy (lax regulation + borderline slave labor). The same way (generally) the USA did 100 years ago to get to the advanced economy stage it is at today.
      - 3y ago
lobochrome 3y ago
This is one key aspect, but it's more relevant in cities with high walkability - which you don't have at all in the BA. I love this aspect of Japan, though. The mixed nature of neighborhoods is magical.
- pezezin 3y ago
  That is only in the big cities like Tokyo or Osaka, as soon as you step out of them Japan quickly devolves into awful American-style urban sprawl and you need a car for everything. Source: 5 years living in Aomori.
  - shiroiuma 3y ago
    Sure, but the large majority of the population lives in those handful of big cities. 1/3 of the population lives in the greater Tokyo area alone. Ignoring the people who live in American-style suburban sprawl means you're ignoring a small fraction of the population. This is basically the reverse of the US, where a small fraction lives in walkable city areas like Manhattan, and everyone else needs a car.
    - pezezin 3y ago
      It is not "a small fraction of the population", pretty much any city other than Tokyo and Osaka suffer from ridiculous urban sprawl. Sure, Tokyo and Osaka are huge and together they hold half the population of the country, but then you have the other half...
  - oblio 3y ago
    It's hard to make small, rural places walkable. Walkability and bikeability imply density and a solid public transit network (which is costly). It's fine if the places where 80% of people live are walkable and the rest maybe aren't as great.
    - cpursley 3y ago
      Rural Netherlands disagrees with you.

TaylorAlexander 3y ago

Oh yeah, parking minimums are a disaster for many reasons, as is the endless acquisition of property by private equity firms. I currently need about 2000 square feet of industrial space (plasma cutting, welding, work benches, and a small office) and its very hard to find such a small spot! Literally the space in Oakland I previously would have used, American Steel, was bought by a private equity firm, all the small tenants were kicked out, and now they rent 20,000 square feet at a time to big venture capital funded companies: https://48hills.org/2022/04/american-steel-burning-man-artist-community-displaced-redevelopment-gentrification/ https://48hills.org/2022/04/american-steel-burning-man-artis... EDIT: Fun fact, I did approach the building, got the manager's number from someone, and called her. When I said I needed 2000 square feet she actually laughed, said "we typically rent out 20,000 square feet or more", said she would "try to find me something" and then never called me back.

infthi 3y ago
if there is a demand for 200sqm space - why wont someone rent 2000 sqm and subrent?
- shiroiuma 3y ago
  Because that's extra work and risk for a small return, plus local ordinances might not even allow it, or would make it difficult. Being a commercial landlord isn't that easy. And there might be "demand", but not at the prices being offered.
  - katbyte 3y ago
    As with many things “not profitable enough” is a huge detriment to society and a huge flaw with unchecked capitalism when so much wealth accumulates at the top
    - shiroiuma 3y ago
      Sure, but what are you going to do about it when most of your voters keep voting for policies that result in this?
- zo1 3y ago
  Here's my low-effort snarky response to your question: Pesky Laws, ordinances, labor rules, and MBAs with fancy graphs that say something is "unprofitable".
mlrtime 3y ago
You're in the wrong place, this isn't a PE problem. There are industrial spaces near me ~ $6/sq/yr with configurable sizes where you could do all this. This is also 30 minutes from a international airport. It's like complaning that someone can't build a factory in manhattan because real estate firms bought all the land.
- thereisnospork 3y ago
  >It's like complaning that someone can't build a factory in manhattan because real estate firms bought all the land. People complained good and hard about not being able to open/run a bodega in Manhattan because firms 'bought up all the land' - to the point Mom and pop shops got significant legislative benefits. To everyone's benefit(?)
- dragontamer 3y ago
  Shenzhen, where China builds electronics, is a 17-million population city where such electronic shops can be built. If we in the USA are supposed to compete against that, we need to start thinking about how to build our cities or culture to provide similar features to Chinese society. Not like their human rights or whatever, but their specific production specs. How quickly you can physically shop in Shenzhen in person to look for parts, how easy it is to share designs in the engineering community, the economies of scale and so forth. We are getting our ass kicked on electronics production. We really should think about emulating China now on this subject.
  - Workaccount2 3y ago
    Emulate China? China emulated us. The US had all that 100 years ago. We are passed that stage and bringing it back is going to have to be artificial and forced. And probably won't even work. China is not a USA that figured out cheap manufacturing. China is an emerging economy that reaped the benefits of being an emerging economy (lax regulation + borderline slave labor). The same way (generally) the USA did 100 years ago to get to the advanced economy stage it is at today.
    - 3y ago

lobochrome 3y ago

This is one key aspect, but it's more relevant in cities with high walkability - which you don't have at all in the BA. I love this aspect of Japan, though. The mixed nature of neighborhoods is magical.

pezezin 3y ago
That is only in the big cities like Tokyo or Osaka, as soon as you step out of them Japan quickly devolves into awful American-style urban sprawl and you need a car for everything. Source: 5 years living in Aomori.
- shiroiuma 3y ago
  Sure, but the large majority of the population lives in those handful of big cities. 1/3 of the population lives in the greater Tokyo area alone. Ignoring the people who live in American-style suburban sprawl means you're ignoring a small fraction of the population. This is basically the reverse of the US, where a small fraction lives in walkable city areas like Manhattan, and everyone else needs a car.
  - pezezin 3y ago
    It is not "a small fraction of the population", pretty much any city other than Tokyo and Osaka suffer from ridiculous urban sprawl. Sure, Tokyo and Osaka are huge and together they hold half the population of the country, but then you have the other half...
- oblio 3y ago
  It's hard to make small, rural places walkable. Walkability and bikeability imply density and a solid public transit network (which is costly). It's fine if the places where 80% of people live are walkable and the rest maybe aren't as great.
  - cpursley 3y ago
    Rural Netherlands disagrees with you.