6 ms·

FWIW, it's only the Max 9s which have this issue. The Max 7s and 8s don't have an exit in that location (too few seats) and the Max 10s require an exit door to

FWIW, it's only the Max 9s which have this issue. The Max 7s and 8s don't have an exit in that location (too few seats) and the Max 10s require an exit door to be installed in that location, not the door plug. It's only the Max 9s that have the option of the door plug, if the installed seat count is below the threshold where an additional exit is required.

ajb257 3y ago
I think the concern is more the attitude that allowed this to happen, despite all the issues Boeing has had.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Yes, this seems like a top to bottom culture rot problem at Boeing sacrificing quality control in exchange for reduced costs. A few years ago, I had read that certain airlines demanded planes manufacturered in Washington rather than South Carolina, and I wonder if that information actually ends up being a useful signal for better quality planes. https://www.postandcourier.com/business/airline-surveys-point-to-ongoing-production-problems-at-boeings-sc-plant/article_0e75f53a-b2d6-11e9-9606-0ffafccd055e.html https://www.postandcourier.com/business/airline-surveys-poin... https://www.wsj.com/articles/production-problems-prompt-broad-faa-review-of-boeing-dreamliner-lapses-11599498118 https://www.wsj.com/articles/production-problems-prompt-broa...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - AYBABTME 3y ago
    I think the Max 9 are made in WA though, so it would be a much wider scale cultural problem than just SC's non-union vs. WA union factories.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      That’s unfortunate, seems like there are no Boeing planes left with the level of credibility they had before.
    - btgeekboy 3y ago
      They’re final-assembled in WA. The plug is installed by Spirit Aerosystems in Kansas.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - throwup238 3y ago
    > A few years ago, I had read that certain airlines demanded planes manufacturered in Washington rather than South Carolina, and I wonder if that information actually ends up being a useful signal for better quality planes. The one with the blown door plug supposedly came off the Renton assembly line. No one is safe.
alistairSH 3y ago
7s and 10s aren’t out in the wild yet. Only 8s and 9s.
- bobsomers 3y ago
  Correct, but I've seen a lot of confusion that its a systemic problem (ala MCAS) with the Max family. It doesn't look that way. It looks like a manufacturing problem on one particular variant.
  - nolok 3y ago
    The 8 had the great MCAS crashes (boeing solution ? tell the pilot to turn it off when it happens !), the 7 has anti icing that burnout the engine nacelle and make it fall (boeing solution ? being exempted from the certification requirement of your engines not falling off and we will fix it in a few years !), the 9 has doors that fall off (boeing doesn't even have a solution on that one, but they know others bolts are at risk too since they warned to check the rudder bolts on jan 5), ... At this point it's a systemic problem with the MAX overall. The only one without issue is the 10 and it's because it's not out yet, but Boeing want a fast track on certification for it because obviously they're doing so good with these there is no need to fully check it. And frankly this time we're talking about the worst of the worst, the basic first step of making airplanes : being able to ensure parts of it doesn't fall off for no reason. This is not a design issue, not a cost cutting "they didn't put enough sensors" reason, this is straight up "their manufacturing is bad and their QA is not able to catch it", ... These things have barely started flying and 5 of those are already affected (well, 6 ...), this is absurd. Sure MBA taking over tends to kill engineering companies ability to make great product, but even Hewlett Packard is still able to make printers that print (they suck, but that's by choice from them)...
    - zmgsabst 3y ago
      Boeing overall. https://www.thedefensepost.com/2023/08/08/usaf-tanker-aircraft-problems/ https://www.thedefensepost.com/2023/08/08/usaf-tanker-aircra...
    - 3y ago

ajb257 3y ago

I think the concern is more the attitude that allowed this to happen, despite all the issues Boeing has had.

lotsofpulp 3y ago
Yes, this seems like a top to bottom culture rot problem at Boeing sacrificing quality control in exchange for reduced costs. A few years ago, I had read that certain airlines demanded planes manufacturered in Washington rather than South Carolina, and I wonder if that information actually ends up being a useful signal for better quality planes. https://www.postandcourier.com/business/airline-surveys-point-to-ongoing-production-problems-at-boeings-sc-plant/article_0e75f53a-b2d6-11e9-9606-0ffafccd055e.html https://www.postandcourier.com/business/airline-surveys-poin... https://www.wsj.com/articles/production-problems-prompt-broad-faa-review-of-boeing-dreamliner-lapses-11599498118 https://www.wsj.com/articles/production-problems-prompt-broa...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- AYBABTME 3y ago
  I think the Max 9 are made in WA though, so it would be a much wider scale cultural problem than just SC's non-union vs. WA union factories.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    That’s unfortunate, seems like there are no Boeing planes left with the level of credibility they had before.
  - btgeekboy 3y ago
    They’re final-assembled in WA. The plug is installed by Spirit Aerosystems in Kansas.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- throwup238 3y ago
  > A few years ago, I had read that certain airlines demanded planes manufacturered in Washington rather than South Carolina, and I wonder if that information actually ends up being a useful signal for better quality planes. The one with the blown door plug supposedly came off the Renton assembly line. No one is safe.

alistairSH 3y ago

7s and 10s aren’t out in the wild yet. Only 8s and 9s.

bobsomers 3y ago
Correct, but I've seen a lot of confusion that its a systemic problem (ala MCAS) with the Max family. It doesn't look that way. It looks like a manufacturing problem on one particular variant.
- nolok 3y ago
  The 8 had the great MCAS crashes (boeing solution ? tell the pilot to turn it off when it happens !), the 7 has anti icing that burnout the engine nacelle and make it fall (boeing solution ? being exempted from the certification requirement of your engines not falling off and we will fix it in a few years !), the 9 has doors that fall off (boeing doesn't even have a solution on that one, but they know others bolts are at risk too since they warned to check the rudder bolts on jan 5), ... At this point it's a systemic problem with the MAX overall. The only one without issue is the 10 and it's because it's not out yet, but Boeing want a fast track on certification for it because obviously they're doing so good with these there is no need to fully check it. And frankly this time we're talking about the worst of the worst, the basic first step of making airplanes : being able to ensure parts of it doesn't fall off for no reason. This is not a design issue, not a cost cutting "they didn't put enough sensors" reason, this is straight up "their manufacturing is bad and their QA is not able to catch it", ... These things have barely started flying and 5 of those are already affected (well, 6 ...), this is absurd. Sure MBA taking over tends to kill engineering companies ability to make great product, but even Hewlett Packard is still able to make printers that print (they suck, but that's by choice from them)...
  - zmgsabst 3y ago
    Boeing overall. https://www.thedefensepost.com/2023/08/08/usaf-tanker-aircraft-problems/ https://www.thedefensepost.com/2023/08/08/usaf-tanker-aircra...
  - 3y ago