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AMD 8000G APUs launch Jan 31, $329 8700G competes with desktop GTX1650 in gaming
- confident_inept 3y agoI had an AMD APU setup that I used for a while as a light gaming rig. I'm impressed to see these chips continue to grow in capability and be offered at reasonable prices. I'm curious how the FOSS video driver for these fares on Linux. The newest discrete cards have random full system lockups and driver crashes that make them unusable for anything that stresses the GPU.
- nateb2022 3y agoI currently have a 3 year old 5800H APU from 2021, which replaced a 2400G (2018) I had before it. I've generally had no issues at all with the integrated graphics.
- sylware 3y agoThe AMD APU you can find in the steam deck running valve FOSS 3D drivers had lockups?
- Aleklart 3y agoGreen screen of death indeed. Had them on 4800h laptop regularly. Laptop worked fine on Windows. AMD already dropped support for vega igpu so I guess these will never work in Linux. May be RDNA drivers is better because Valve using them in Steam Deck. Still AMD can break it at any release as they did many times.
- Scramblejams 3y agoCan you point me to resources regarding these lockups? I regularly game on Linux using the FOSS amdgpu driver (kernel 6.5) with a 7900 XTX, which is relatively recent (i.e. RDNA3), and I haven't seen any yet.
- saltcured 3y agoI have had a Ryzen 7 Pro 3700U based Thinkpad T495 since 2019, running Fedora. I can't remember many full system lockups, but there may have been a few. I ran Steam games on it for a year or two before switching those to a different system. But I ran a number of Linux native or Proton-based games and it was the best performing system I had for a while. What I do recall is that OpenCL barely worked and could get into strange "stuck" states only resolved by rebooting. I could still use the windowing system for a bit, but some kernel calls seemed to begin hanging. It was very disappointing, as I knew this machine had a lot of FLOPS I could have put to use if the OpenCL drivers worked. One quirk I never resolved in Linux is that the mouse pointer would seem to jump around sometimes while typing. I haven't seen this on any other Thinkpad and it seemed to persist across multiple different Fedora installations. No adjustments to the "mouse" controls menu seemed to make a difference. I recently started using a Ryzen 7 Pro 7840U based Thinkpad P14s. It doesn't seem to have either of these two issues, but I haven't used it for very long. I find it to be an impressive machine so far.
- seanw444 3y agoI have a dual-GPU setup, with a 6900 XT passed through to a Windows VM for games. So I guess I can't say anything about new cards having issues. But the amdgpu drivers are fantastic on the RX 570 that Linux does touch.
- mjevans 3y agoI'm still a little sad they aren't at least allowing 90W parts. More power breathing room and maybe another 4-8 GPU CUs would make for a compelling entry tier gaming rig.
- treprinum 3y agoWhat kind of LLM inference performance can we expect if we pair it up with 192GB of DDR5?
- rbanffy 3y agoThis was, until a short while back, Apple's exclusive terrain.
- cced 3y agoCan you expand on this? What is the current co tender for LLM inference that is ~on par with Apples offerings?
- smoldesu 3y agoIt entirely depends on workload. This blog has a diligent mixed-model comparison of the M3 laptops lined up against the Titan RTX (2019) and Tesla V100 (2017): https://www.mrdbourke.com/apple-m3-machine-learning-test/ https://www.mrdbourke.com/apple-m3-machine-learning-test/
- rbanffy 3y agoWould be interesting to see results for the beefier Macs with more RAM. Curious as to what one could do with larger AI models. I'm aiming at 64GB or more for my next Mac, but not because of AI but to ensure longevity. Macs in this house tend to have very long and productive lives.
- seec 3y agoExpect the number of cases where it would give a real advantage would be pretty small. In all the cases presented, Apple gets completely destroyed even with their best chip at around 10x worse; that is before even talking about the cost, after which you can only conclude that Apple hardware makes absolutely no sense for this type of task. Even if you found enough tasks where the larger memory available would make a difference to average mixed performance closer to a NVidia solution, they would seriously need to lower their RAM price for this argument to hold up... With their current commercial offering, Apple isn't competitive for anything, even though the computers and chips themselves are not bad at all.
- sylware 3y ago300euros for the 8700g, perfect for a mini-PC to play dota2 on my custom linux distro. I would push the envelop for a dirt cheap motherboard, without network or audio chips, only many USB-C high-speed ports (and dongles for those). I guess the power supply or battery pack will be the most expensive component after the APU and before the RAM. We are talking <500 euros serious gaming mini-PC.
- Aaronstotle 3y agoI'm more interested in the custom linux distro part, was it hard to setup? I used to dabble a lot with Linux and its how I got my career in tech actually. Closest I got to something like that was a gentoo distro, although I think I messed something up because I wasn't able to boot into it after all that setup.
- sylware 3y agoI have 2 decades of linux system dev programming. Most of open source SDKs are abominations and code is being literaly brain fucked by ultra-complex syntax languages like c++, rust and similar. I am disgusted, to a point for me, open source software is now hardly less worse than msft or apple trash. I have open source software only because I can still customize it enough to let me bear with it and it is free as in free beer. That to say, the amount of insane and broken knowledge you need to properly maintain a fully custom linux distro (very custom) is obscene. I am trying to find ways out of some of the critical issues for myself, basically trying to move a mountain with a spoon.
- toast0 3y agoAudio and ethernet are probably cheaper onboard than with whatever you need to enable usb-c and an external dongle. The real way to get a cheaper board is going chipsetless; something knoll3 like this [1], but without the fancy bits. Single 1g ethernet, no ipmi, no oculink, and the price probably comes way down. Although, I do see there's a MSI PRO A620M-E Micro ATX out there for $75, so maybe we can have a chipset after all. [1] https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=AM5D4ID-2T/BCM#Specifications https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=A...
- pedrocr 3y agoThese parts could also be interesting for NAS and other home server setups if the monolithic die leads to better idle power usage and they haven't lost ECC support. Unfortunately getting verified ECC support in AM5 seems to be quite difficult. In AM4 it was easy but ECC on APUs was only enabled on the PRO parts which were only sold to OEMs.
- zamadatix 3y agoIt's worth noting AMD already included minimal GPUs in the desktop line for the Zen 4 generation, including video encode/decode. These, with the exception of the 8300G model, simply have larger GPUs but smaller cache and this might not be a good trade off for a NAS. The exception is the 8300G which is a good budget option having only 4 cores and no parallel in the desktop line.
- pedrocr 3y agoAM5 has iGPU in all parts which makes it easier to use as server indeed. But normal AM5 parts are chiplet designs so they idle at relatively high power. These are monolithic dies from the laptop line so they have that going for them. According to the AMD website ECC support is enabled in these too: https://www.amd.com/en/product/14066 https://www.amd.com/en/product/14066 It seems AM5 motherboards are back to having ECC confirmed in the specs after AMD AGESA updates: https://www.asrock.com/MB/AMD/B650M%20Pro%20RS/index.asp#Specification https://www.asrock.com/MB/AMD/B650M%20Pro%20RS/index.asp#Spe... So pending some benchmarks 8700G+B650+ECC sounds like a good home server that should idle at low power.
- zamadatix 3y agoOh wow I thought they abandoned the monolithic APUs in newer generations as well. I guess that does help then.
- whitepoplar 3y agoWhat's the easiest way to cheaply get ECC on AM5 working w/ separate GPUs nowadays? I currently have an ASRock B450 AM4 motherboard + ECC memory + Ryzen 5 3600 and while I think ECC works, I'm not certain. I with there were a "cheap ECC on <AMD newest socket>" guide where the components and settings were validated by a reputable party.
- rbanffy 3y agoWhat is the performance for number crunching (rather than polygon pushing) compared to similar APUs in the same price range?
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoAm I the only one disappointed in AMD for still not releasing a proper PC gaming APU and instead they keep trickling down these lukewarm parts to us like it's the best thing since slice bread when they already have the monster X86 Ryzen-RDNA APU from the PS5 and Xbox released 3 years ago, which slap these new PC APUs into oblivion at gaming. So why can't they just strip the proprietary Sony/Microsoft IP from the silicone and release a PC version of those APUs? They're still just bog standard Ryzen-RDNA parts with more graphic CUs and higher TDP than what they sell for the PC, and the PC motherboards can take higher TDPs of the PS5/Xbox APUs anyway. So what gives AMD? Why you playing us like that?
- Sparkyte 3y agoIt's more complicated it isn't that they can't. Desktop memory is still behind GPU memory in bandwidth. So making a GPU greater than a certain footprint looses efficiency. However you could probably achieve low-midrange dGPU performance.
- mirsadm 3y agoApple seems to be doing a pretty good job, AMD can figure it out.
- kevingadd 3y agoApple's SoCs aren't running against consumer DDR5 slapped into slots on a motherboard
- smileybarry 3y agoThat's the point, though. Apple are doing a pretty good job because they're using unified memory on the same chip. When AMD gets the same opportunity -- e.g.: PS4/PS5 and XBO/XSX APUs, Steam Deck APU, Z1 Extreme, etc. -- they get good results because they control the memory layout, capacity, and speeds. (And end up deploying VRAM as chip RAM, essentially)
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- arprocter 3y agoIt'd be interesting to benchmark this against say a 5600 with an actual 1650 (cost of both combined's about 300 bucks at current prices) My first build was on an APU - if all you wanted was 'a working computer' it was fine, but I soon switched to a normal CPU and GPU
- andrewstuart 3y agoMore interesting to benchmark the same CPU with an actual 1650.
- arprocter 3y agoTrue - I was just going for 'around the same price' I went 3400G -> 1600 Super -> 5600X, and performance with the latter was much better (other than being 2 gens behind, the older APUs had half the cache of the non-G variants) Depending on the state of iGPU transcoding this'd probably make a nice chip for a Plex box
- noelwelsh 3y agoMost interesting to me is the built-in NPU / "AI Accelerator" / Ryzen AI / XDNA. While descriptions of the chip are relatively easy to find, I haven't yet found out how the thing is programmed. Hetergeneous programming across APU, GPU, and NPU is going to be interesting. Update: https://ryzenai.docs.amd.com/en/latest/ https://ryzenai.docs.amd.com/en/latest/
- aurareturn 3y agoIt’s basically an NPU, which has been shipping on phones for 5 years already.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Aleklart 3y agoNothing to praise AMD about: 1. Same greedy strategy to sell 8 cores with top igpu while put heavily cut down igpu to 4 and 6 cores. Nobody need 8 cores for this little gpu performance. In fact you have to disable half of cores to get better fps and most users of RDNA handhelds already did it. Steam deck have 4 cores for the same reason. 2. 780M is rebranded 680M released 2 years ago with same performance. Before it, AMD had been rebranding vega for 3 years. 3. Intel igpu is already on pair in laptops. 15 gen will have same igpu performance and same cuts as AMD while having cheaper 2 and 4 cores for casual players. 4. AMD drivers still awful and most gamers switch to Nvidia just because of it and never look back. 5. “Insane gaming performance ” is equal to performance of 8 years old 1060 that can be bought for 30 euros. New parts like 6500, A380 or 1650 GDDR6 are available for 100-150 euro. Gaming PC for kids with performance of 300+ euro 8700g can be built for 100 euro (chinese LGA 2011-3 Xeon + RX 570 refab). 6. Non gamers have no reason to buy APU at all. It will stay as niche of SFF and corporate boxes.
- Yizahi 3y agoPress F to doubt(c) It says that highest SKU has Radeon 780M (12 CU) inside. That's exactly the same GPU as in 7940HS/7840HS and it scores slightly below 1060-3Gb cards in 3dmark. The only difference between 7840HG and newer APUs is addition of the (useless?) NPU unit which functions are unclear to me. Train neural networks on a 35W APU? I've entertained an idea of buying 7840HG SBC as a mini travel PC for 1080P. Still thinking :)
- cyanydeez 3y agothe NPU is expected for inference. in the near future, AMD is expecting small models to proliferate. of course, this depends on a toolkit that abstracts the various competitors