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Conspiracy corner: Egypt is joining BRICS. Maybe this is deliberate pressure and this is a convenient excuse?

alephnerd 3y ago
BRICS is not some omnipresent challenge to NATO or the WB. China and India hate each other and were literally a trigger away from war 3 years ago. "[the] two countries almost at the brink of war with artillery guns ready to fire at Chinese tanks which were trying to storm Indian positions, a fate averted by a hotline between the two sides, reveals former Army chief Gen M.M. Naravane (Retd)" [0] [0] - https://theprint.in/defence/nearing-breaking-point-gen-naravane-recalls-how-india-china-were-at-brink-of-war-in-aug-2020/1892648/ https://theprint.in/defence/nearing-breaking-point-gen-narav...
- pi-e-sigma 3y ago
  Turkey and Greece hate each other but it doesn't prevent them both being in NATO. It's hard to tell what BRICS really is but it's not a military organization so no point comparing them to NATO anyway
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    > Turkey and Greece hate each other but it doesn't prevent them both being in NATO No, but their mutual dependence on the US for military procurement and defense keeps them within NATO. China and India on the other hand began the process of a hard decoupling in 2020. Major Chinese tech companies were frozen out of the Indian market, and others were "encouraged" to sell off their operations to Indian, American, Japanese, Korean, and Taiwanese companies. For example, the Foxconn factory manufacturing iPhones in India was originally built for Xiaomi before they were pushed out. So was Huawei India's assets to Cisco and Vivo India's factory to Samsung. Indian tax authorities raid Chinese run companies at such a high frequency that even China has publicly complained about this [0]. This is a stunning change for a country that 4 years before was the 2nd largest FDI investor in India after the US. > It's hard to tell what BRICS really It's a half assed attempt at becoming a WB, ADB, or IMF competitor, but is hemmed by mutual competition between China and India. This is why the only 4 countries added in the expansion were those that had a roughly equal dependency on China and India. > it's not a military organization so no point comparing them to NATO anyway Agreed! I'm just dismissing a common pop fact I've noticed regurgitated on HN and Reddit. I have a hunch that the overlap between some of the more braindead subreddits and HN is quite high. [0] - https://m.thewire.in/article/diplomacy/enforcement-directorate-china-vivo-india/ https://m.thewire.in/article/diplomacy/enforcement-directora...
    - pi-e-sigma 3y ago
      Turkey doesn't need US for defense, it's the other way around. That's why the US gov grinds their teeth but have to deal with Erdogan
      - alephnerd 3y ago
        > Turkey doesn't need US for defense What planes do the Turkish Airforce use? What tanks, APCs, and helicopters does the Turkish Army use? Where is most of Turkey's naval fleet manufactured? Turkey has been working on indigenization and diversifying it's procurement by buying from Italy, Spain, and France, but it is still heavily dependent on American weapons systems. Relations between the US and Turkiye deteriorated severely after the US began supporting the YPG (which imo was a stupid move by the Trump admin), but there is still a mutual dependency, with the US giving Turkey protection against Russia (with whom they are fighting against in a couple proxy wars like in Ukraine, Syria, Libya, etc), and the US dependent on Turkiye for Central Asia and Middle Eastern power projection. The real world isn't a game of Civ where you are either friends or foes. In reality there exists multiple layers of grey. Furthermore, public denouncements or displays of support don't necessarily translate to positive or negative action. A good example is Turkiye-Israel relations. Erdogan will always denounce Israel and the "Zionists", but at the end of the day, Turkey and Israel have extremely strong defense relations as both are heavily involved in Azerbaijan (Turkey because they view Azeris as brothers, and Israel because of Iran). It's the same for US-Turkiye relations. Erdogan has to publicly appear anti-American due to his base's memories of the American supported Turkish Armed Forces violently repressing Islam until the 90s, but in actual actions, there is a mutual dependency. There's a reason why most of the younger generation of Erdogan's family attended IU Bloomington.
        pi-e-sigma 3y ago
        Turkey doesn't need any protection from Russia. It has second largest army in NATO right after US and can fend off Russia just fine all on its own. During Cold War it was a different story but times have changed and in fact, these days Turkey actually has quite cozy relations with Russia when you put aside the official rhetoric and look at what is actually happening.
- throwaway29812 3y ago
  BRICS is also not an actual political or economic union. It's nothing.

BRICS is not some omnipresent challenge to NATO or the WB. China and India hate each other and were literally a trigger away from war 3 years ago. "[the] two countries almost at the brink of war with artillery guns ready to fire at Chinese tanks which were trying to storm Indian positions, a fate averted by a hotline between the two sides, reveals former Army chief Gen M.M. Naravane (Retd)" [0] [0] - https://theprint.in/defence/nearing-breaking-point-gen-naravane-recalls-how-india-china-were-at-brink-of-war-in-aug-2020/1892648/ https://theprint.in/defence/nearing-breaking-point-gen-narav...

pi-e-sigma 3y ago
Turkey and Greece hate each other but it doesn't prevent them both being in NATO. It's hard to tell what BRICS really is but it's not a military organization so no point comparing them to NATO anyway
- alephnerd 3y ago
  > Turkey and Greece hate each other but it doesn't prevent them both being in NATO No, but their mutual dependence on the US for military procurement and defense keeps them within NATO. China and India on the other hand began the process of a hard decoupling in 2020. Major Chinese tech companies were frozen out of the Indian market, and others were "encouraged" to sell off their operations to Indian, American, Japanese, Korean, and Taiwanese companies. For example, the Foxconn factory manufacturing iPhones in India was originally built for Xiaomi before they were pushed out. So was Huawei India's assets to Cisco and Vivo India's factory to Samsung. Indian tax authorities raid Chinese run companies at such a high frequency that even China has publicly complained about this [0]. This is a stunning change for a country that 4 years before was the 2nd largest FDI investor in India after the US. > It's hard to tell what BRICS really It's a half assed attempt at becoming a WB, ADB, or IMF competitor, but is hemmed by mutual competition between China and India. This is why the only 4 countries added in the expansion were those that had a roughly equal dependency on China and India. > it's not a military organization so no point comparing them to NATO anyway Agreed! I'm just dismissing a common pop fact I've noticed regurgitated on HN and Reddit. I have a hunch that the overlap between some of the more braindead subreddits and HN is quite high. [0] - https://m.thewire.in/article/diplomacy/enforcement-directorate-china-vivo-india/ https://m.thewire.in/article/diplomacy/enforcement-directora...
  - pi-e-sigma 3y ago
    Turkey doesn't need US for defense, it's the other way around. That's why the US gov grinds their teeth but have to deal with Erdogan
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      > Turkey doesn't need US for defense What planes do the Turkish Airforce use? What tanks, APCs, and helicopters does the Turkish Army use? Where is most of Turkey's naval fleet manufactured? Turkey has been working on indigenization and diversifying it's procurement by buying from Italy, Spain, and France, but it is still heavily dependent on American weapons systems. Relations between the US and Turkiye deteriorated severely after the US began supporting the YPG (which imo was a stupid move by the Trump admin), but there is still a mutual dependency, with the US giving Turkey protection against Russia (with whom they are fighting against in a couple proxy wars like in Ukraine, Syria, Libya, etc), and the US dependent on Turkiye for Central Asia and Middle Eastern power projection. The real world isn't a game of Civ where you are either friends or foes. In reality there exists multiple layers of grey. Furthermore, public denouncements or displays of support don't necessarily translate to positive or negative action. A good example is Turkiye-Israel relations. Erdogan will always denounce Israel and the "Zionists", but at the end of the day, Turkey and Israel have extremely strong defense relations as both are heavily involved in Azerbaijan (Turkey because they view Azeris as brothers, and Israel because of Iran). It's the same for US-Turkiye relations. Erdogan has to publicly appear anti-American due to his base's memories of the American supported Turkish Armed Forces violently repressing Islam until the 90s, but in actual actions, there is a mutual dependency. There's a reason why most of the younger generation of Erdogan's family attended IU Bloomington.
      - pi-e-sigma 3y ago
        Turkey doesn't need any protection from Russia. It has second largest army in NATO right after US and can fend off Russia just fine all on its own. During Cold War it was a different story but times have changed and in fact, these days Turkey actually has quite cozy relations with Russia when you put aside the official rhetoric and look at what is actually happening.
throwaway29812 3y ago
BRICS is also not an actual political or economic union. It's nothing.