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> What are some pros and cons of using OpenBSD instead of Linux? Pros: htop only fills half of your terminal, and you know exactly what each process does bec

> What are some pros and cons of using OpenBSD instead of Linux? Pros: htop only fills half of your terminal, and you know exactly what each process does because you put them there. A few well-written man pages are the complete documentation of the system. The whole thing is run by a handful of shell scripts. Cons: exactly the same text, but read with a different tone.

user3939382 3y ago
Yep I love it. ps -ax gives you like 12 processes and the role of each is obvious and essential. The OS isn't doing anything you didn't ask it to, you can actually understand the OS. Try that on a default Ubuntu install, it's like macOS, just totally and literally out of control.
- yeeeloit 3y ago
  > you can actually understand the OS. The way you describe FreeBSD is how I imagine an OS should be. I'm going to make it a goal this year to get a server up and running. Thanks. -- Rant Linux gives me more inferiority complex than any other technology I've ever touched. Sure, something like a database system, or a moderately large code base or framework is complicated, and intimidating, and it might take many years to get a grip on, and understand, let alone master. But Linux? I just don't get it. I've tried for years, read books about it, etc. etc. But in the end it's voodoo to me, and I'm always left searching for answers to problems, unable to solve them myself. The answers are always just rote step-by-step; do this and copy this command, problem solved. Why? how? nothing makes sense!!! I always have the sense that somewhere out there is the holy bible of Linux, the missing piece of the puzzle; read this and it will all make sense. Admittedly I've never compiled a distro. So in some respect I'm guilty of not going into the deep end. I suspect that if I learnt systems programming, and really go into the thick of it... then somewhere I might start to find my feet. But it's easier to just believe that I'm stupid, and Linux is beyond my ability to comprehend.
  - exe34 3y ago
    Have you tried LFS? You can copy and paste, but you have to read the commands and figure out what they're doing. This will give you an overall theoretical idea of how things are laid out - but you have to realise that every new version of something, there's some developer somewhere who wants to exercise their creativity and make something really clever and cool (to them), so it probably won't make any sense to you after the upgrade. That's the point you realise you're on the eternal treadmill of trying to keep your system doing what you need it to do, without freezing in the vulnerabilities.
  - toyg 3y ago
    > read this and it will all make sense. Linux is a sprawling metropolis, you have everything and its opposite - a lot of it won't make any sense unless you learn who built what, when, and why; and you can have dirty slums right next to well-designed skyscrapers. Trying to find meaning in such a thing is fundamentally a fool's errand.
  - cudder 3y ago
    I'd say the Gentoo handbook comes pretty close. You set up everything in the system and all is well explained. Not quite as extreme as LFS but enough to learn and not punish yourself.
  - hexagonwin 3y ago
    Try slackware, its very simple and easy to use, and allows you to actually understand your system like the BSDs.
wharvle 3y ago
Relaxing. Like back when you could attach WireShark to your local network and not see a single damn thing happen for tens of seconds at a time unless you pressed a button somewhere. ... But also when computers wouldn't do anything useful unless you pressed a button. Or a bunch of buttons, more likely.
- WhackyIdeas 3y ago
  What you describe about WireShark sounds zen.
  - wharvle 3y ago
    It really was. Just my own machine's traffic makes it scroll faster than I can read, these days. Every web page and program constantly phoning home up and and including sending real-time mouse cursor locations, mdns, UDP local-network-device-discovery traffic, all kinds of stuff.
  - randmeerkat 3y ago
    > What you describe about WireShark sounds zen. It was actually ethereal.
    - mech422 3y ago
      LOL - made me chuckle
- fomine3 3y ago
  This is the best invitation for BSD I've ever read
steve_rambo 3y ago
The first point equally applies to Alpine and any system built from Debian minimal install ("built" is too strong a word, all you need to do is `apt install` several packages).
- cylinder714 3y ago
  The trick is, figuring out the names of the packages you want. :-\ Experiment, and take notes, I guess. I had a fun experience playing with `grml-debootstrap', GRML¹ being a command-line-oriented LiveCD built upon Debian. Once you’ve booted up, that app installs a minimal Debian instance on your computer. I haven't tried using the stock Debian `debootstrap' utility. 1: https://grml.org/ https://grml.org/
  - steve_rambo 3y ago
    I meant installing just what you need, like web servers and such. Probably should have written that in the original comment. You need to do that on any other operating system anyway, including any of the BSDs. If you just need a plain system to drop a statically linked binary onto, Debian minimal install is perfectly usable right out of the box, and (IIRC) ships fewer components than OpenBSD.
  - cylinder714 3y ago
    About grml-debootstrap: https://grml.org/grml-debootstrap/ https://grml.org/grml-debootstrap/

user3939382 3y ago

Yep I love it. ps -ax gives you like 12 processes and the role of each is obvious and essential. The OS isn't doing anything you didn't ask it to, you can actually understand the OS. Try that on a default Ubuntu install, it's like macOS, just totally and literally out of control.

yeeeloit 3y ago
> you can actually understand the OS. The way you describe FreeBSD is how I imagine an OS should be. I'm going to make it a goal this year to get a server up and running. Thanks. -- Rant Linux gives me more inferiority complex than any other technology I've ever touched. Sure, something like a database system, or a moderately large code base or framework is complicated, and intimidating, and it might take many years to get a grip on, and understand, let alone master. But Linux? I just don't get it. I've tried for years, read books about it, etc. etc. But in the end it's voodoo to me, and I'm always left searching for answers to problems, unable to solve them myself. The answers are always just rote step-by-step; do this and copy this command, problem solved. Why? how? nothing makes sense!!! I always have the sense that somewhere out there is the holy bible of Linux, the missing piece of the puzzle; read this and it will all make sense. Admittedly I've never compiled a distro. So in some respect I'm guilty of not going into the deep end. I suspect that if I learnt systems programming, and really go into the thick of it... then somewhere I might start to find my feet. But it's easier to just believe that I'm stupid, and Linux is beyond my ability to comprehend.
- exe34 3y ago
  Have you tried LFS? You can copy and paste, but you have to read the commands and figure out what they're doing. This will give you an overall theoretical idea of how things are laid out - but you have to realise that every new version of something, there's some developer somewhere who wants to exercise their creativity and make something really clever and cool (to them), so it probably won't make any sense to you after the upgrade. That's the point you realise you're on the eternal treadmill of trying to keep your system doing what you need it to do, without freezing in the vulnerabilities.
- toyg 3y ago
  > read this and it will all make sense. Linux is a sprawling metropolis, you have everything and its opposite - a lot of it won't make any sense unless you learn who built what, when, and why; and you can have dirty slums right next to well-designed skyscrapers. Trying to find meaning in such a thing is fundamentally a fool's errand.
- cudder 3y ago
  I'd say the Gentoo handbook comes pretty close. You set up everything in the system and all is well explained. Not quite as extreme as LFS but enough to learn and not punish yourself.
- hexagonwin 3y ago
  Try slackware, its very simple and easy to use, and allows you to actually understand your system like the BSDs.

wharvle 3y ago

Relaxing. Like back when you could attach WireShark to your local network and not see a single damn thing happen for tens of seconds at a time unless you pressed a button somewhere. ... But also when computers wouldn't do anything useful unless you pressed a button. Or a bunch of buttons, more likely.

WhackyIdeas 3y ago
What you describe about WireShark sounds zen.
- wharvle 3y ago
  It really was. Just my own machine's traffic makes it scroll faster than I can read, these days. Every web page and program constantly phoning home up and and including sending real-time mouse cursor locations, mdns, UDP local-network-device-discovery traffic, all kinds of stuff.
- randmeerkat 3y ago
  > What you describe about WireShark sounds zen. It was actually ethereal.
  - mech422 3y ago
    LOL - made me chuckle
fomine3 3y ago
This is the best invitation for BSD I've ever read

steve_rambo 3y ago

The first point equally applies to Alpine and any system built from Debian minimal install ("built" is too strong a word, all you need to do is `apt install` several packages).

cylinder714 3y ago
The trick is, figuring out the names of the packages you want. :-\ Experiment, and take notes, I guess. I had a fun experience playing with `grml-debootstrap', GRML¹ being a command-line-oriented LiveCD built upon Debian. Once you’ve booted up, that app installs a minimal Debian instance on your computer. I haven't tried using the stock Debian `debootstrap' utility. 1: https://grml.org/ https://grml.org/
- steve_rambo 3y ago
  I meant installing just what you need, like web servers and such. Probably should have written that in the original comment. You need to do that on any other operating system anyway, including any of the BSDs. If you just need a plain system to drop a statically linked binary onto, Debian minimal install is perfectly usable right out of the box, and (IIRC) ships fewer components than OpenBSD.
- cylinder714 3y ago
  About grml-debootstrap: https://grml.org/grml-debootstrap/ https://grml.org/grml-debootstrap/