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As someone who eats almost exclusively vegan I think it would be great as the whole world faces these issues, we see lots of switches to eating tofu or plant ba

by lgkk 3y ago

As someone who eats almost exclusively vegan I think it would be great as the whole world faces these issues, we see lots of switches to eating tofu or plant based foods. Way cheaper. Can’t get so fat and unhealthy. And far healthier since most vegans and vegetarians live long and healthy lives compared to other groups. Poke tastes great with tofu btw. We shouldn’t destroy the oceans. Anyway I’m bracing for the inevitable downvote to oblivion

defterGoose 3y ago
Not going to downvote you because I appreciate your position. It seems really unlikely that tuna consumption is driving obesity or detrimental health effects though. Sushi lovers (and meat eaters) such as myself do need to make educated choices about their consumption though, I agree. Which is why basically any tuna species is (and has been) at the bottom of my list.
HWR_14 3y ago
> We shouldn’t destroy the oceans. That's why this isn't great. Because this is not "we went vegan to save the oceans". It is "the oceans look like they are already destroyed". Besides that, I haven't seen any studies that show a vegan or vegetarian diet makes someone healthier.
- nerpderp82 3y ago
  There are over a billion people that don't eat meat by choice on the planet and another billion plus that have low access to animal protein. We can attempt to fix it before ecosystems collapse, if we do it afterwards, the only meat you will be eating will be worms.
  - thfuran 3y ago
    >There are over a billion people that don't eat meat by choice on the planet and another billion plus that have low access to animal protein. That's not evidence that they're healthier for it.
  - dmoy 3y ago
    Well, worms and insects
- epolanski 3y ago
  https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1559827611425762 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/155982761142576... This is an extensive review of many papers from 10 years ago, most data agrees that vegetarian diet is considerably healthier. More modern literature merely adds that if you go full vegan you need to eat quite some if you want to preserve lean mass.
  - deepnotderp 3y ago
    Associated != causal Most people who are vegan are more likely to be health conscious
    - epolanski 3y ago
      Comparisons have been made with both diets being healthy, extremely low meat diets consistently come on top for anything but caloric intake and lean mass preservation, which aren't the primary health concerns for people following the average diet anyway.
  - HWR_14 3y ago
    I clicked on a few at random. I saw vegetarianism "with comprehensive lifestyle changes" in one case. "Well-planned" vegan meals compared to a standard (less planned) omnivore diet in another. Obviously, physically active vegetarians who carefully consider their diet (and eat specifically balanced non-ultraprocessed food) compares well to 100% fast food eating couch potatoes. Also obviously, it's far easier to have a nutritional deficit with vegetarian food. I have yet to see a study where vegetarianism is just imposed with no other guidance. If you have one, I would love to see it.
    - epolanski 3y ago
      There's also the Stanford twins experiment where the omnivore diet is also very healthy.[1] There's plenty of Harvard studies too. There's an abundance of literature that meat causes cancer, cardiovascular diseases, etc, but people aren't different to 50s smokers. Seriously. It's so obvious that cattle farming is among the most earth destroying activities but people prefer not to see, because it impacts their life. Easier to she'll 50k on a Tesla to feel good. Also, just to point out, I'm not a vegan, all I'm saying is that meat should be heavily limited, which is what I do myself. [1] https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2023/11/twin-diet-vegan-cardiovascular.html https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2023/11/twin-diet-veg...
- forward1 3y ago
  > Besides that, I haven't seen any studies that show a vegan or vegetarian diet makes someone healthier. You must not have looked. Almost all (except for commercially funded) studies prove plant-based diets are much healthier; it's literally the scientific consensus in nutrition.
  - adrian_b 3y ago
    Plant-based diets are much healthier, but only for those who are careful to also take a relatively large number of supplements containing the minerals that do not exist in plants or which exist in too small quantities (iodine, selenium, calcium) and the vitamins, fatty acids and amino-acid derivatives that do not exist in plants and which either are not made by humans, or are made in insufficient quantities, especially at old age and especially in males (vitamins B12, D3, K2, DHA, EPA, creatine, taurine, choline). Otherwise, there are plenty of studies that show that those vegans who neglect to take appropriate supplements have various health problems, e.g. osteoporosis or anemia. I also have heard of many (and I know personally someone) who were forced to abandon the vegan diet after some time due to health problems, but it is very likely that all such problems have been caused by not taking a complete set of supplements, because most have heard only about B12, and that is not the only substance missing from plants.
    - forward1 3y ago
      That has less to do with being vegan and all to do with being aware of what micronutrients your body needs to thrive. Everyone benefits from B12 supplementation as it's no longer possible to derive it from the natural environment; even farm animals are routinely injected with B12 and a cocktail of other vitamins. Non-vegans have just as many nutritional deficiencies, if not more, like a total lack in fiber. And for every neglectful vegan, there are ten unhealthy animal product-eating individuals with even more debilitating diseases, like diabetes, for example. Also, DHA/EPA is synthesized in the body; it's not necessary to supplement them, nor any other vitamins you had listed, other than B12 and possibly D3 (depending on your latitude).
lisper 3y ago
> Way cheaper. Can’t get so fat and unhealthy. But not nearly as tasty :-( [UPDATE] Why all the hate? I thought I was making a serious point: food is not just about health, it's also about enjoyment. You can survive on beans and rice, but there are people, myself included, who would happily give up a few years of life expectancy for a more diverse diet.
- tasoga 3y ago
  I thought I was on hn but it turns out I'm still on reddit :/
rayiner 3y ago
Pescatarian diets are as healthy or more healthy than vegetarian or vegan ones, and much easier to adhere to in terms of getting the required proteins and amino acids.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- forward1 3y ago
  Can you point out any vegan/vegatarian suffering from an amino acid imbalance (while eating an isocaloric amount of food; i.e., not starving)? Even a case study would do to demonstrate your point.
  - adrian_b 3y ago
    For a vegan who has a sedentary lifestyle, the problem is not getting appropriate amounts of amino-acids from the food, but getting them without eating so much as to cause a rapid gain of weight. Lean meat provides proteins with very little of anything else, so it is extremely easy to choose a menu providing enough proteins but not too much energy. Among vegetable products, only the seeds contain decent amount of proteins (this includes the cereals and the legumes), but all seeds contain much more of either carbohydrates or fats than proteins. There are vegetable protein extracts aimed at vegans, but I do not consider those as an acceptable solution, because they are several times more expensive than meat, so it is likely that their environmental impact, due to the consumption of energy and chemicals for the protein extraction is greater than that of meat. Chicken meat is only about twice more expensive than legumes like peas, lentils or beans, so it is not easy to find a method of protein extraction from vegetables that can compete with that. In Europe, where I live, there exists only one method that I am aware of that can be used to obtain enough proteins in a vegan diet with no more than 2000 kcal/day, when paying no more than for a chicken meat-based diet, which is to get more than half of the proteins from wheat flour from which the starch is removed at home by washing the dough made of it. Any vegan diet that does not use some method of protein extraction would lead to a daily intake of around 3000 kcal when providing enough proteins for a healthy male, which is acceptable only for someone who does heavy physical work, but not for someone who works by sitting in the front of a computer. Regarding the amino-acid balance, 167 g/day of lentils can provide enough of each essential amino-acid for a 75-kg human, with the exception of methionine. Similarly 500 g/day of wheat flour can provide enough of each essential amino-acid for a 75-kg human, with the exception of lysine. If only wheat flour would be the source of proteins 1000 g per day would be needed to provide all essential amino-acids, but that alone would provide about 3500 kcal. If only lentils would be the source of proteins, about 600 g per day would be needed to provide all essential amino-acids, but that alone would provide about 1900 kcal (and eating so much lentils per day would be more expensive than eating chicken meat). Combining wheat flour with lentils can satisfy the amino-acid requirements with much more reasonable quantities, but the daily intake of calories remains too high, unless most of the starch (i.e. about 75% of the starch) is removed from the wheat flour.
wkat4242 3y ago
> Can’t get so fat and unhealthy. Nah you can eat just as bad vegan food. Most vegan burgers are just fat patties much worse than those made of lean beef. As with any type of food it depends on the choices you make within the class and the amount of it. I think the reason vegans and vegetarians are healthier is mainly because they are more conscious of what they're eating in the first place. And depending on where you are it can take a lot of effort so it rules out "comfort food" people. I'm not sure about the US but here in Spain it's actually quite difficult to be vegetarian, there's not many local restaurants that serve veg options. More so when it comes to touristy places but still.. In Holland in comparison the supermarkets and restaurants are full of them. > We shouldn’t destroy the oceans. Totally agreed here.
- beacon294 3y ago
  They have lower saturated fat than lean beef, good protein content and blend, and overall less strain on the organs.
  - staringback 3y ago
    Saturated fat from beef is one of the healthiest things to consume.
    - EForEndeavour 3y ago
      Where could I read more about this?
      - staringback 3y ago
        https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34547017/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34547017/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14739118/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14739118/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9327759/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9327759/
        EForEndeavour 3y ago
pfisch 3y ago
We'll probably just figure out a way to switch to farming these fish or something very similar to them once we finish destroying the wild ones in the ocean.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
epolanski 3y ago
I second this 100%. Society overall is in a level of denial towards the very negative impact of cattle farming on the planet like it was in the 50s towards tobacco. People will bitch about a cigarette being smoked 10 meters from them, but will shove sausages and stakes down their throats every other day pretending it doesn't have a gigantic cost in terms of earth's resources or the many studies pointing about how unhealthy it is. Mind you, I don't advocate for people to cut off meat entirely, I myself have no intention to do so, but if we globally halved this crazy meat culture the impact on the planet would be huge. We eat unhealthy and we're killing the planet while pretending to be green with Tesla SUVs. We're doomed to keep making this planet worse.
SeanAnderson 3y ago
> Can’t get so fat and unhealthy. Why can't someone get as fat and unhealthy with a vegan diet? I'm friends with vegans who eat a LOT of processed foods - Gardein crispy tenders, Carl's Jr. for Beyond Burgers, etc. > And far healthier since most vegans and vegetarians live long and healthy lives compared to other groups. How much of this is attributable to a specific diet vs highlighting that those who care about what they eat generally perform better?
- thih9 3y ago
  > Why can't someone get as fat and unhealthy with a vegan diet? Don’t know about “unhealthy”, but “fat” is actually less likely, according to a research: “our results suggest that self-identified semivegetarian, lactovegetarian, and vegan women have a lower risk of overweight and obesity than do omnivorous women. The advice to consume more plant foods and less animal products may help individuals control their weight.” https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916523277084 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S000291652...
  - staringback 3y ago
    I'm not listening to a "scientific article" written by someone who doesn't know the difference between less and fewer.
  - wharvle 3y ago
    In a society where these diets buck the norm, I expect some of this effect is just from paying more attention to what one eats. It's a major mechanism behind lots of restrictive diets working for weight loss—paying more attention to food helps all on its own. I bet there are people out there who eat semi-vegetarian diets basically by accident, who wouldn't think to label themselves semi-vegetarian, and that the beneficial effect is less pronounced among them.
  - amanaplanacanal 3y ago
    I bet people on carnivore diet are less fat also. The key variable is “caring about your diet”, not whether or not you are eating plants or animals.
bnralt 3y ago
> Way cheaper. Can’t get so fat and unhealthy. And far healthier since most vegans and vegetarians live long and healthy lives compared to other groups. Japan, where tuna sashimi is popular (apparently they eat more tuna by far than any other country), has the lowest obesity rate of the OECD countries, and one of the highest life expectancies.
- forward1 3y ago
  That's not because they eat tuna sashimi, it's because they eat relatively less processed animal products.
erichmond 3y ago
To be fair, you set yourself up for the downvote. There is no science to backup the vegan diet is "far healthier". Also, if the entire world stopped eating meat, we'd have a series of other problems to deal with. Just make intellectually honest arguments and try and win that way. It's a much better way to "convert" people to your cause.
- triceratops 3y ago
  What problems do you think would result? The only ones I can think of are job losses in agriculture and healthcare. And the entire world wouldn't stop eating meat anyway so it's a made up problem.
acuozzo 3y ago
> Can’t get so fat and unhealthy. It's super easy to be vegetarian/vegan and eat mostly junk food. American supermarkets are filled to the brim with potato & corn chips fried in vegetable oil and sugar drinks of all kinds.
__MatrixMan__ 3y ago
You're right, it's the way forward, but I don't think you're helping by making it seem like the easy path. You have to pay more attention to your nutrition if you want to stay healthy as a vegan, and attention is under attack these days.
pixelbyindex 3y ago
With regards to the point about health, I disagree. The culprit is not meat vs veggies, as processed foods and the ilk of hydrogenated fats and fructose based syrups and added sugars are by far the indicators of poor health. We see this in countless recent studies today. Some prior links such as meat = cancer are not seen as correct now. Good health is achieved by regular physical exercise, and clear choices of unprocessed raw foods without added sugars. Being vegan can get you there, certainly, provided you don't indulge daily in pastries and deep fried seed oils. But the reason I bother to reply is to point out that the same goes for high protein keto based diets, and even the carnivore diet, which has a growing body of support. We should all be striving to keep healthy bodies and healthy minds. There is plenty of information out there for all of us to live long and healthy lives.
- rcpt 3y ago
  > processed foods In the United States when you eat meat it's a lot harder to know what you're getting thanks to the tireless efforts of the meat industry to lobby against any change to food labeling. And it's hard to feed this much trash to a carrot: https://www.reddit.com/r/Wellthatsucks/comments/stz2j1/plastic_in_pork/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Wellthatsucks/comments/stz2j1/plast...
deepnotderp 3y ago
> Can’t get so fat and unhealthy. And far healthier since most vegans and vegetarians live long and healthy lives compared to other groups. My healthy breakfast of donuts and a soda ;) Jokes aside, I don’t think the health point stands, but the animal health perspective probably does.

by lgkk 3y ago

defterGoose 3y ago

Not going to downvote you because I appreciate your position. It seems really unlikely that tuna consumption is driving obesity or detrimental health effects though. Sushi lovers (and meat eaters) such as myself do need to make educated choices about their consumption though, I agree. Which is why basically any tuna species is (and has been) at the bottom of my list.

HWR_14 3y ago

> We shouldn’t destroy the oceans. That's why this isn't great. Because this is not "we went vegan to save the oceans". It is "the oceans look like they are already destroyed". Besides that, I haven't seen any studies that show a vegan or vegetarian diet makes someone healthier.

nerpderp82 3y ago
There are over a billion people that don't eat meat by choice on the planet and another billion plus that have low access to animal protein. We can attempt to fix it before ecosystems collapse, if we do it afterwards, the only meat you will be eating will be worms.
- thfuran 3y ago
  >There are over a billion people that don't eat meat by choice on the planet and another billion plus that have low access to animal protein. That's not evidence that they're healthier for it.
- dmoy 3y ago
  Well, worms and insects
epolanski 3y ago
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1559827611425762 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/155982761142576... This is an extensive review of many papers from 10 years ago, most data agrees that vegetarian diet is considerably healthier. More modern literature merely adds that if you go full vegan you need to eat quite some if you want to preserve lean mass.
- deepnotderp 3y ago
  Associated != causal Most people who are vegan are more likely to be health conscious
  - epolanski 3y ago
    Comparisons have been made with both diets being healthy, extremely low meat diets consistently come on top for anything but caloric intake and lean mass preservation, which aren't the primary health concerns for people following the average diet anyway.
- HWR_14 3y ago
  I clicked on a few at random. I saw vegetarianism "with comprehensive lifestyle changes" in one case. "Well-planned" vegan meals compared to a standard (less planned) omnivore diet in another. Obviously, physically active vegetarians who carefully consider their diet (and eat specifically balanced non-ultraprocessed food) compares well to 100% fast food eating couch potatoes. Also obviously, it's far easier to have a nutritional deficit with vegetarian food. I have yet to see a study where vegetarianism is just imposed with no other guidance. If you have one, I would love to see it.
  - epolanski 3y ago
    There's also the Stanford twins experiment where the omnivore diet is also very healthy.[1] There's plenty of Harvard studies too. There's an abundance of literature that meat causes cancer, cardiovascular diseases, etc, but people aren't different to 50s smokers. Seriously. It's so obvious that cattle farming is among the most earth destroying activities but people prefer not to see, because it impacts their life. Easier to she'll 50k on a Tesla to feel good. Also, just to point out, I'm not a vegan, all I'm saying is that meat should be heavily limited, which is what I do myself. [1] https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2023/11/twin-diet-vegan-cardiovascular.html https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2023/11/twin-diet-veg...
forward1 3y ago
> Besides that, I haven't seen any studies that show a vegan or vegetarian diet makes someone healthier. You must not have looked. Almost all (except for commercially funded) studies prove plant-based diets are much healthier; it's literally the scientific consensus in nutrition.
- adrian_b 3y ago
  Plant-based diets are much healthier, but only for those who are careful to also take a relatively large number of supplements containing the minerals that do not exist in plants or which exist in too small quantities (iodine, selenium, calcium) and the vitamins, fatty acids and amino-acid derivatives that do not exist in plants and which either are not made by humans, or are made in insufficient quantities, especially at old age and especially in males (vitamins B12, D3, K2, DHA, EPA, creatine, taurine, choline). Otherwise, there are plenty of studies that show that those vegans who neglect to take appropriate supplements have various health problems, e.g. osteoporosis or anemia. I also have heard of many (and I know personally someone) who were forced to abandon the vegan diet after some time due to health problems, but it is very likely that all such problems have been caused by not taking a complete set of supplements, because most have heard only about B12, and that is not the only substance missing from plants.
  - forward1 3y ago
    That has less to do with being vegan and all to do with being aware of what micronutrients your body needs to thrive. Everyone benefits from B12 supplementation as it's no longer possible to derive it from the natural environment; even farm animals are routinely injected with B12 and a cocktail of other vitamins. Non-vegans have just as many nutritional deficiencies, if not more, like a total lack in fiber. And for every neglectful vegan, there are ten unhealthy animal product-eating individuals with even more debilitating diseases, like diabetes, for example. Also, DHA/EPA is synthesized in the body; it's not necessary to supplement them, nor any other vitamins you had listed, other than B12 and possibly D3 (depending on your latitude).

lisper 3y ago

> Way cheaper. Can’t get so fat and unhealthy. But not nearly as tasty :-( [UPDATE] Why all the hate? I thought I was making a serious point: food is not just about health, it's also about enjoyment. You can survive on beans and rice, but there are people, myself included, who would happily give up a few years of life expectancy for a more diverse diet.

tasoga 3y ago
I thought I was on hn but it turns out I'm still on reddit :/

rayiner 3y ago

Pescatarian diets are as healthy or more healthy than vegetarian or vegan ones, and much easier to adhere to in terms of getting the required proteins and amino acids.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
forward1 3y ago
Can you point out any vegan/vegatarian suffering from an amino acid imbalance (while eating an isocaloric amount of food; i.e., not starving)? Even a case study would do to demonstrate your point.
- adrian_b 3y ago
  For a vegan who has a sedentary lifestyle, the problem is not getting appropriate amounts of amino-acids from the food, but getting them without eating so much as to cause a rapid gain of weight. Lean meat provides proteins with very little of anything else, so it is extremely easy to choose a menu providing enough proteins but not too much energy. Among vegetable products, only the seeds contain decent amount of proteins (this includes the cereals and the legumes), but all seeds contain much more of either carbohydrates or fats than proteins. There are vegetable protein extracts aimed at vegans, but I do not consider those as an acceptable solution, because they are several times more expensive than meat, so it is likely that their environmental impact, due to the consumption of energy and chemicals for the protein extraction is greater than that of meat. Chicken meat is only about twice more expensive than legumes like peas, lentils or beans, so it is not easy to find a method of protein extraction from vegetables that can compete with that. In Europe, where I live, there exists only one method that I am aware of that can be used to obtain enough proteins in a vegan diet with no more than 2000 kcal/day, when paying no more than for a chicken meat-based diet, which is to get more than half of the proteins from wheat flour from which the starch is removed at home by washing the dough made of it. Any vegan diet that does not use some method of protein extraction would lead to a daily intake of around 3000 kcal when providing enough proteins for a healthy male, which is acceptable only for someone who does heavy physical work, but not for someone who works by sitting in the front of a computer. Regarding the amino-acid balance, 167 g/day of lentils can provide enough of each essential amino-acid for a 75-kg human, with the exception of methionine. Similarly 500 g/day of wheat flour can provide enough of each essential amino-acid for a 75-kg human, with the exception of lysine. If only wheat flour would be the source of proteins 1000 g per day would be needed to provide all essential amino-acids, but that alone would provide about 3500 kcal. If only lentils would be the source of proteins, about 600 g per day would be needed to provide all essential amino-acids, but that alone would provide about 1900 kcal (and eating so much lentils per day would be more expensive than eating chicken meat). Combining wheat flour with lentils can satisfy the amino-acid requirements with much more reasonable quantities, but the daily intake of calories remains too high, unless most of the starch (i.e. about 75% of the starch) is removed from the wheat flour.

wkat4242 3y ago

> Can’t get so fat and unhealthy. Nah you can eat just as bad vegan food. Most vegan burgers are just fat patties much worse than those made of lean beef. As with any type of food it depends on the choices you make within the class and the amount of it. I think the reason vegans and vegetarians are healthier is mainly because they are more conscious of what they're eating in the first place. And depending on where you are it can take a lot of effort so it rules out "comfort food" people. I'm not sure about the US but here in Spain it's actually quite difficult to be vegetarian, there's not many local restaurants that serve veg options. More so when it comes to touristy places but still.. In Holland in comparison the supermarkets and restaurants are full of them. > We shouldn’t destroy the oceans. Totally agreed here.

beacon294 3y ago
They have lower saturated fat than lean beef, good protein content and blend, and overall less strain on the organs.
- staringback 3y ago
  Saturated fat from beef is one of the healthiest things to consume.
  - EForEndeavour 3y ago
    Where could I read more about this?
    - staringback 3y ago
      https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34547017/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34547017/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14739118/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14739118/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9327759/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9327759/
      - EForEndeavour 3y ago

pfisch 3y ago

We'll probably just figure out a way to switch to farming these fish or something very similar to them once we finish destroying the wild ones in the ocean.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

epolanski 3y ago

I second this 100%. Society overall is in a level of denial towards the very negative impact of cattle farming on the planet like it was in the 50s towards tobacco. People will bitch about a cigarette being smoked 10 meters from them, but will shove sausages and stakes down their throats every other day pretending it doesn't have a gigantic cost in terms of earth's resources or the many studies pointing about how unhealthy it is. Mind you, I don't advocate for people to cut off meat entirely, I myself have no intention to do so, but if we globally halved this crazy meat culture the impact on the planet would be huge. We eat unhealthy and we're killing the planet while pretending to be green with Tesla SUVs. We're doomed to keep making this planet worse.

SeanAnderson 3y ago

> Can’t get so fat and unhealthy. Why can't someone get as fat and unhealthy with a vegan diet? I'm friends with vegans who eat a LOT of processed foods - Gardein crispy tenders, Carl's Jr. for Beyond Burgers, etc. > And far healthier since most vegans and vegetarians live long and healthy lives compared to other groups. How much of this is attributable to a specific diet vs highlighting that those who care about what they eat generally perform better?

thih9 3y ago
> Why can't someone get as fat and unhealthy with a vegan diet? Don’t know about “unhealthy”, but “fat” is actually less likely, according to a research: “our results suggest that self-identified semivegetarian, lactovegetarian, and vegan women have a lower risk of overweight and obesity than do omnivorous women. The advice to consume more plant foods and less animal products may help individuals control their weight.” https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916523277084 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S000291652...
- staringback 3y ago
  I'm not listening to a "scientific article" written by someone who doesn't know the difference between less and fewer.
- wharvle 3y ago
  In a society where these diets buck the norm, I expect some of this effect is just from paying more attention to what one eats. It's a major mechanism behind lots of restrictive diets working for weight loss—paying more attention to food helps all on its own. I bet there are people out there who eat semi-vegetarian diets basically by accident, who wouldn't think to label themselves semi-vegetarian, and that the beneficial effect is less pronounced among them.
- amanaplanacanal 3y ago
  I bet people on carnivore diet are less fat also. The key variable is “caring about your diet”, not whether or not you are eating plants or animals.

bnralt 3y ago

> Way cheaper. Can’t get so fat and unhealthy. And far healthier since most vegans and vegetarians live long and healthy lives compared to other groups. Japan, where tuna sashimi is popular (apparently they eat more tuna by far than any other country), has the lowest obesity rate of the OECD countries, and one of the highest life expectancies.

forward1 3y ago
That's not because they eat tuna sashimi, it's because they eat relatively less processed animal products.

erichmond 3y ago

To be fair, you set yourself up for the downvote. There is no science to backup the vegan diet is "far healthier". Also, if the entire world stopped eating meat, we'd have a series of other problems to deal with. Just make intellectually honest arguments and try and win that way. It's a much better way to "convert" people to your cause.

triceratops 3y ago
What problems do you think would result? The only ones I can think of are job losses in agriculture and healthcare. And the entire world wouldn't stop eating meat anyway so it's a made up problem.

acuozzo 3y ago

> Can’t get so fat and unhealthy. It's super easy to be vegetarian/vegan and eat mostly junk food. American supermarkets are filled to the brim with potato & corn chips fried in vegetable oil and sugar drinks of all kinds.

__MatrixMan__ 3y ago

You're right, it's the way forward, but I don't think you're helping by making it seem like the easy path. You have to pay more attention to your nutrition if you want to stay healthy as a vegan, and attention is under attack these days.

pixelbyindex 3y ago

With regards to the point about health, I disagree. The culprit is not meat vs veggies, as processed foods and the ilk of hydrogenated fats and fructose based syrups and added sugars are by far the indicators of poor health. We see this in countless recent studies today. Some prior links such as meat = cancer are not seen as correct now. Good health is achieved by regular physical exercise, and clear choices of unprocessed raw foods without added sugars. Being vegan can get you there, certainly, provided you don't indulge daily in pastries and deep fried seed oils. But the reason I bother to reply is to point out that the same goes for high protein keto based diets, and even the carnivore diet, which has a growing body of support. We should all be striving to keep healthy bodies and healthy minds. There is plenty of information out there for all of us to live long and healthy lives.

rcpt 3y ago
> processed foods In the United States when you eat meat it's a lot harder to know what you're getting thanks to the tireless efforts of the meat industry to lobby against any change to food labeling. And it's hard to feed this much trash to a carrot: https://www.reddit.com/r/Wellthatsucks/comments/stz2j1/plastic_in_pork/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Wellthatsucks/comments/stz2j1/plast...

deepnotderp 3y ago

> Can’t get so fat and unhealthy. And far healthier since most vegans and vegetarians live long and healthy lives compared to other groups. My healthy breakfast of donuts and a soda ;) Jokes aside, I don’t think the health point stands, but the animal health perspective probably does.