5 ms·

The "why" part is sort of missing ...

SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/05/business/maersk-red-sea-shipping-suspended/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/05/business/maersk-red-sea-s... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/07/houthi-attacks-us-military-yemen-middle-east https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/07/houthi... https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2024/1/6/24027735/yemen-houthi-red-sea-united-states-navy-coalition-maersk-hamas-gaza-israel https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2024/1/6/24027735/yemen-h... A google for keywords including some of "attack ships red sea houthi" will provide some context
thih9 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_involvement_in_the_Israel–Hamas_war#Attacks_on_shipping_in_the_Red_Sea_and_Indian_Ocean_2023-2024 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_involvement_in_the_Isra... https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/more-ships-avoid-red-sea-attacks-disrupt-world-trade-2023-12-21/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/more-ships-avoid-r...
- H8crilA 3y ago
  And before someone says the equivalent of "just blow them off the map" - this will likely be worse than Afganistan. North Yemen has been bombed for close to a decade already by Saudis and others, and the Saudis eventually decided to negotiate via Chinese mediation. I don't know ho likely it is to work, but splitting Yemen into recognized North Yemen and South Yemen may be a good diplomatic solution.
  - actionfromafar 3y ago
    Or an easily thawed frozen conflict. The root problems are spelled Saudi Arabia vs Iran and almost certainly somewhere in the curtains, some Russian cheer leading.
    - H8crilA 3y ago
      Yeah they opened up diplomatic relations, under Chinese mediation, and so far nothing indicates a breakdown. Plus do not make the common mistake of not noticing agency - Houthi are quite effective political agents with their own agenda.
      - actionfromafar 3y ago
        They have agency, but their force multiplier is weapons and money from Iran.
  - FpUser 3y ago
    And who will do the splitting?
    - H8crilA 3y ago
      Yemen is currently split along mostly reasonable lines. It's just not recognized internationally (the most internationally legitimate government has de facto nothing to say in the north nor in the south).
andsoitis 3y ago
Ships are being attacked by the Iran-backed Houthi rebels, who have declared support for Hamas. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67731853 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67731853
- asylteltine 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - charred_patina 3y ago
    I am curious, how do you distinguish between the two? To me it seems like the US designation of terrorist just means "group we don't want to negotiate with". The US has backed rebels and regimes that have done equally bad (if not worse) stuff in the past, and not labeled them as terrorists. I am not trying to justify or defend a group whose motto is "curse on the Jews" but I don't think the designation of terrorist is particularly useful for understanding the situation. "We'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way" -- Toby Keith Maybe this quote would be helpful for understanding the anger Americans felt post-9/11, but it wouldn't be helpful for understanding US geopolitics.
    - andsoitis 3y ago
      Terrorism targets civilians with violence in order to achieve political goals.
      - charred_patina 3y ago
        This describes pretty much every country on the planet right now. I think the real distinction is that terrorists are non-state actors who use violence (bad). States are legally allowed to use violence (necessary). But the common parlance of terrorist usually means "US designated terrorist" which really means "group we refuse to bargain with". The Taliban were a terrorist group, now they are a government. The Iraqi army was a legitimate army, then many became ISIS, a terrorist group.
hnfong 3y ago
It seems to be due to conflicts/attacks in the Red Sea region arising from the Gaza conflict - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/03/what-is-the-red-sea-crisis-and-what-does-it-mean-for-global-trade https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/03/what-is-the-re... Disclaimer: I learnt about this 3 minutes ago.
- dr-detroit 3y ago
  [dead]
- LargeTomato 3y ago
  How can you possibly have learned about this 3 minutes ago lol it's been the most significant political event in the world for months.
  - fulladder 3y ago
    What is a most significant event to one person may be of little or no significance to another.
saiya-jin 3y ago
Well its in the news, Houthis attacking due to conflict/war in Gaza to force western countries into more pressure on Israel
- fulladder 3y ago
  I don't understand this. Like, I'm some random American voter, and a Maersk chemical tanker gets attacked. Maybe I pay a higher end-consumer price for some product a few months from now, but why is that going to cause me to go out and protest something or other to do with Israel? What I'm trying to ask: what is the outcome these attackers are expecting, and how does it benefit them?
  - saiya-jin 3y ago
    Spanish election IIRC in 2004 were won by the party which promised to withdraw from Iraq. A small detail - bunch of bombs killed 200+ people few days before that, and terrorists stated clearly this is their reason, so they got their way. What I want to say - this kind of pressure often works, in some ways.
  - ars 3y ago
    > What I'm trying to ask: what is the outcome these attackers are expecting, and how does it benefit them? It's not really that complicated. They just hate Jews (and the US), it's quite literally in their slogan. They don't really have a goal other than "try to kill Jews", and this is the best they are currently able to do.
  - grenouille932 3y ago
    Houthis are trying to enforce a blockade of Israel by targeting ships going to Israeli ports (or owned by Israelis). They are asking Israel to let humanitarian aid into Gaza to ease that blockade.
fulladder 3y ago
Yeah, I agree. I don't understand what the motivation for this is. People are saying the goal is piracy, but attacking a ship from as much as 1,000 miles away wouldn't enable you to board it or take ownership of the valuable cargo. Overall, I don't understand how somebody fighting a civil war would feel that it's somehow advantageous for them to attack a merchant ship with no connection to their conflict. The whole thing makes no sense to me.
devnull42069 3y ago
Israel is committing a genocide in occupied Palestine. So Yemen is intervening by blockading Israel through the Red Sea and launching strikes (similar to the NATO intervention in the Kosovo genocide). Shipping companies, rather than abiding by the selective blockade of Israeli bound ships, are re-routing all ships instead because they believe making this a global problem will resolve the matter with military intervention without them having to "pick" a side. Some of these companies also have deep ties to Israel (or based in countries that have de-facto signed off on Israeli aggression) so abiding by the blockade is not politically feasible. One exception is COSCO and they seem to going through the canal just fine.
- ars 3y ago
  Israel is not committing a genocide. Gaza is not occupied. Yemen is not blockading Israel. The Houthis are not attacking Israel bound ships, they are attacking all ships. Israel is not in control of shipping companies. You probably set a record for most false information in one post.
  - elzbardico 3y ago
    You're kind of right in all points, yet catastrophically misleading. 1) So far it can't be called a Genocide, just mass murder along with an attempt at ethnic cleansing and forced expulsion. 2) Gaza still is not occupied and hasn't been since 2006. It is under a very severe blockade instead, and now is being invaded. 3) The Houthis are attacking Israel bound ships and whatever ship that has economic ties with Israeli nationals or economic groups.
- stjohnswarts 3y ago
  This is incorrect. Israel is at war with Hamas and they aren't holding back, and there is a large difference between what is going on and genocide. If Israel wanted to commit genocide then the entirety of Gaza would be leveled and 99% of the people dead indiscriminately. There are different levels of warfare.
  - johnnyworker 3y ago

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/05/business/maersk-red-sea-shipping-suspended/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/05/business/maersk-red-sea-s... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/07/houthi-attacks-us-military-yemen-middle-east https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/07/houthi... https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2024/1/6/24027735/yemen-houthi-red-sea-united-states-navy-coalition-maersk-hamas-gaza-israel https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2024/1/6/24027735/yemen-h... A google for keywords including some of "attack ships red sea houthi" will provide some context

thih9 3y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_involvement_in_the_Israel–Hamas_war#Attacks_on_shipping_in_the_Red_Sea_and_Indian_Ocean_2023-2024 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_involvement_in_the_Isra... https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/more-ships-avoid-red-sea-attacks-disrupt-world-trade-2023-12-21/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/more-ships-avoid-r...

H8crilA 3y ago
And before someone says the equivalent of "just blow them off the map" - this will likely be worse than Afganistan. North Yemen has been bombed for close to a decade already by Saudis and others, and the Saudis eventually decided to negotiate via Chinese mediation. I don't know ho likely it is to work, but splitting Yemen into recognized North Yemen and South Yemen may be a good diplomatic solution.
- actionfromafar 3y ago
  Or an easily thawed frozen conflict. The root problems are spelled Saudi Arabia vs Iran and almost certainly somewhere in the curtains, some Russian cheer leading.
  - H8crilA 3y ago
    Yeah they opened up diplomatic relations, under Chinese mediation, and so far nothing indicates a breakdown. Plus do not make the common mistake of not noticing agency - Houthi are quite effective political agents with their own agenda.
    - actionfromafar 3y ago
      They have agency, but their force multiplier is weapons and money from Iran.
- FpUser 3y ago
  And who will do the splitting?
  - H8crilA 3y ago
    Yemen is currently split along mostly reasonable lines. It's just not recognized internationally (the most internationally legitimate government has de facto nothing to say in the north nor in the south).

andsoitis 3y ago

Ships are being attacked by the Iran-backed Houthi rebels, who have declared support for Hamas. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67731853 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67731853

asylteltine 3y ago
[flagged]
- charred_patina 3y ago
  I am curious, how do you distinguish between the two? To me it seems like the US designation of terrorist just means "group we don't want to negotiate with". The US has backed rebels and regimes that have done equally bad (if not worse) stuff in the past, and not labeled them as terrorists. I am not trying to justify or defend a group whose motto is "curse on the Jews" but I don't think the designation of terrorist is particularly useful for understanding the situation. "We'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way" -- Toby Keith Maybe this quote would be helpful for understanding the anger Americans felt post-9/11, but it wouldn't be helpful for understanding US geopolitics.
  - andsoitis 3y ago
    Terrorism targets civilians with violence in order to achieve political goals.
    - charred_patina 3y ago
      This describes pretty much every country on the planet right now. I think the real distinction is that terrorists are non-state actors who use violence (bad). States are legally allowed to use violence (necessary). But the common parlance of terrorist usually means "US designated terrorist" which really means "group we refuse to bargain with". The Taliban were a terrorist group, now they are a government. The Iraqi army was a legitimate army, then many became ISIS, a terrorist group.

hnfong 3y ago

It seems to be due to conflicts/attacks in the Red Sea region arising from the Gaza conflict - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/03/what-is-the-red-sea-crisis-and-what-does-it-mean-for-global-trade https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/03/what-is-the-re... Disclaimer: I learnt about this 3 minutes ago.

dr-detroit 3y ago
[dead]
LargeTomato 3y ago
How can you possibly have learned about this 3 minutes ago lol it's been the most significant political event in the world for months.
- fulladder 3y ago
  What is a most significant event to one person may be of little or no significance to another.

saiya-jin 3y ago

Well its in the news, Houthis attacking due to conflict/war in Gaza to force western countries into more pressure on Israel

fulladder 3y ago
I don't understand this. Like, I'm some random American voter, and a Maersk chemical tanker gets attacked. Maybe I pay a higher end-consumer price for some product a few months from now, but why is that going to cause me to go out and protest something or other to do with Israel? What I'm trying to ask: what is the outcome these attackers are expecting, and how does it benefit them?
- saiya-jin 3y ago
  Spanish election IIRC in 2004 were won by the party which promised to withdraw from Iraq. A small detail - bunch of bombs killed 200+ people few days before that, and terrorists stated clearly this is their reason, so they got their way. What I want to say - this kind of pressure often works, in some ways.
- ars 3y ago
  > What I'm trying to ask: what is the outcome these attackers are expecting, and how does it benefit them? It's not really that complicated. They just hate Jews (and the US), it's quite literally in their slogan. They don't really have a goal other than "try to kill Jews", and this is the best they are currently able to do.
- grenouille932 3y ago
  Houthis are trying to enforce a blockade of Israel by targeting ships going to Israeli ports (or owned by Israelis). They are asking Israel to let humanitarian aid into Gaza to ease that blockade.

fulladder 3y ago

Yeah, I agree. I don't understand what the motivation for this is. People are saying the goal is piracy, but attacking a ship from as much as 1,000 miles away wouldn't enable you to board it or take ownership of the valuable cargo. Overall, I don't understand how somebody fighting a civil war would feel that it's somehow advantageous for them to attack a merchant ship with no connection to their conflict. The whole thing makes no sense to me.

devnull42069 3y ago

Israel is committing a genocide in occupied Palestine. So Yemen is intervening by blockading Israel through the Red Sea and launching strikes (similar to the NATO intervention in the Kosovo genocide). Shipping companies, rather than abiding by the selective blockade of Israeli bound ships, are re-routing all ships instead because they believe making this a global problem will resolve the matter with military intervention without them having to "pick" a side. Some of these companies also have deep ties to Israel (or based in countries that have de-facto signed off on Israeli aggression) so abiding by the blockade is not politically feasible. One exception is COSCO and they seem to going through the canal just fine.

ars 3y ago
Israel is not committing a genocide. Gaza is not occupied. Yemen is not blockading Israel. The Houthis are not attacking Israel bound ships, they are attacking all ships. Israel is not in control of shipping companies. You probably set a record for most false information in one post.
- elzbardico 3y ago
  You're kind of right in all points, yet catastrophically misleading. 1) So far it can't be called a Genocide, just mass murder along with an attempt at ethnic cleansing and forced expulsion. 2) Gaza still is not occupied and hasn't been since 2006. It is under a very severe blockade instead, and now is being invaded. 3) The Houthis are attacking Israel bound ships and whatever ship that has economic ties with Israeli nationals or economic groups.
stjohnswarts 3y ago
This is incorrect. Israel is at war with Hamas and they aren't holding back, and there is a large difference between what is going on and genocide. If Israel wanted to commit genocide then the entirety of Gaza would be leveled and 99% of the people dead indiscriminately. There are different levels of warfare.
- johnnyworker 3y ago