6 ms·

I cannot help notice that Hetzner offers 5000 GB/month AND a full dedicated server, for 39 EUR (51 USD) [1], so his traffic would have cost him at that rate a t

by vladd 14y ago

I cannot help notice that Hetzner offers 5000 GB/month AND a full dedicated server, for 39 EUR (51 USD) [1], so his traffic would have cost him at that rate a total of 100 USD if he were to use a dedicated server instead of Amazon. (before mentioning Amazon's scalability, consider that Hacker News is ran on a single dedicated server, and the moral of the story seems to be how not to scale especially when you don't want to) [1] - http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/x3 http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/x3

robryan 14y ago
Of course if you want to do away with any kind of built in redundancy and take over the sysadmin duties involved you can get the raw space and transfer cheaper.
- krelian 14y ago
  I have a VPS on buyvm which includes 2TB/month for $6. Each extra TB is another $2.50. This is not a special case, you can other providers with very good pricing for data transfer. I don't understand how the difference in bandwidth pricing can be so large. I'm also certain that Amazon doesn't pay as much for bandwidth as the guy from buyvm.
  - true_religion 14y ago
    buyvm is overselling their bandwidth to you. Real uplink pricing is not 2 dollars per terabyte. If you actually tried to use say 13 terabytes from a single vm, it would work eithe because of rate limmiting on your uplink or they would cut you off.
    - krelian 14y ago
      I realize they bank on their users not fully utilizing the allocated bandwidth but you can take as a somewhat similar example whatbox (or any other seedbox provider), they sell bandwidth pretty cheap and their users are in general huge bandwidth hogs.
    - lsc 14y ago
      well, real uplinks are charged on the 95th percentile, mostly. (sometimes capped, and Cogent does 90th percentile) I'm signing a deal (if all goes well) tomorrow for $0.65 per MB/sec. 5 gigabit commit on a 10GB port, ($1.15/megabit overage charge, billed on the 90th percentile.) From Cogent, probably the cheapest provider that claims 'tier 1' status (there's a lot of argument about Cogent's "tier 1" status... which is kind of funny; If you only have one provider, a good tier 2 is going to be more reliable than a tier 1 anyhow.) but it is a real uplink and I really can use 5 gigabits of that. If you ran one megabit full out for a month, assuming 2,629,743 seconds in a month and assuming seagate gigabytes, divide by 8 and you get 328717 megabytes. so, uh, yeah, two dollars a terabyte? assuming they are larger than I am, and their BGP mix is the low-end stuff (Cogent and HE.net or the like) they aren't losing money.
      - X-Istence 14y ago
        Prices have gone down since the last time I had to deal with all of that. I remember the company I was working with paying $1.67 per Mb/sec, I've seen offers for 1 Gigabit/sec for $1000 so roughly $1.00 per Mb/sec (using 1000, not 1024), but I didn't know they would go down to $0.65 per Mb/sec! Guess the more you commit to, the better pricing you get!
        lsc 14y ago
        Bandwidth pricing falls dramatically with bulk. Cogent offered me $0.75/meg for a 3g commit, $0.65 for a 5g commit, and $0.50 for a 10G commit. I know a guy that is getting $4.00/meg on a 100M commit on a 1000M pipe, also from Cogent. (and he chose that over going through me for $650/month for a capped full 1000M pipe) Bandwidth is also a "negotiated good" without a standard price, so what I pay may be rather different from what you pay. On top of that, bandwidth costs fall... dramatically[1] in competitive markets, and I'm in silicon valley, probably one of the most competitive transit markets. According to the graphs I've seen[1] I'm paying below average, but it won't be very long before what I'm paying is average. I was explaining this to the real-estate guy that owns my data center that was wanting to get in on the bandwidth business (he wanted to get people in for cheap and crank up the price on renewal, like you do with real-estate and data-center space) His response? "but then why would anyone want to be in the bandwidth business?" I mean, the fiber in the ground? that's like real-estate. the prices go up, the prices go down, eh, whatever. But, the amount of traffic you can push over two strands of fiber? that goes up all the time; I have some old cisco 15540 ESPx DWDM units that can do 16 10GB/sec waves over one pair of fiber. They were awesome back in the day. Modern DWDM equipment? you can get 80 100GB/sec waves on one pair of fiber. It's irritating, though, as like everything in this industry, you have to negotiate for months to get the "real price" - I asked Cogent for a single, capped 1 gigabit port for $1000/month north of 6 months ago. "Call me back when you can get me a buck a meg" They kept calling me back "how about $3 a meg? how about $1.75 a meg?" I mean, even now, they beat the buck a meg price point, but I had to buy a lot more than I needed (I'm splitting it half and half with another company, at cost, so while the transaction cost was huge, once you factor in the discounted setup fees, well, I am still paying more than a grand a month, but it's still a pretty comfortable fee for me.) I imagine Cogent has spent several thousand dollars of salesperson time, and I /know/ I have spend several thousand dollars of my time on this, and they are charging me rather less than if I had wasted almost none of their time. They even dropped the setup charge down to almost nothing. And now I've gotta do the same thing all over again with a second provider (most likely he.net) What a waste of time and effort all around. I mean, a little bit? it's kinda fun, I mean, sales people are always ridiculously overdressed extroverts, and in this industry, most of them can pick up on my personality and act in a way that is tolerable or even fun for short periods of time, but I really am an introvert. I mean, it can be fun for a while? but man, I have had like 5 meetings the last two days, between dealing with Cogent and dealing with the people that are buying half the pipe from me. It's exhausting, and I guess I have a hard time seeing how this is the most efficient way to sell bandwidth. I mean, I guess some people throw up their hands and pay the $3/meg asking price, and if they can break even on me, god damn, you wouldn't need many of the $3/meg customers to get really rich. But then that leads the question: why bother with me? I mean, I'm going to turn around and sell transit very near this cost in a very public way, which will mean that more of those $3/meg customers are going to turn around and ask Cogent for a discount. I guess they can rely on the fact that, well, I'm a scruffy introvert, and no large corporation will do business with me. Still, I mean, Cogent will let me drop 1G (capped, sadly) ports into datacenters where I don't have equipment for $650/month, and I've been running ads saying I would be willing to sell those at cost (and make my profit off of the difference between the list setup fee, $2500, and what they are actually charging me.) - This was mostly a way to get the higher commit pricing without actually paying for it all. [1]http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Internet-Transit-Pricing-Historical-And-Projected.php http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Internet-Transit-Pricing-H...
  - xenophanes 14y ago
    One factor is: Amazon charges for actual bandwidth used. Most buyvm users only use a tiny fraction of what they are allowed to.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
negamax 14y ago
For me biggest reason to use AWS is ease of use and APIs. I have used dedicated servers before but with AWS I don't even think about servers. Application is somewhere sitting in the cloud and it will scale, if required or I will get alert if something is not right. Also, majority of people will not be needing more than a single EC2 instance which costs ~$20 a month, lesser for Linux. Amazon reviews and lowers prices periodically.

by vladd 14y ago

robryan 14y ago

Of course if you want to do away with any kind of built in redundancy and take over the sysadmin duties involved you can get the raw space and transfer cheaper.

krelian 14y ago
I have a VPS on buyvm which includes 2TB/month for $6. Each extra TB is another $2.50. This is not a special case, you can other providers with very good pricing for data transfer. I don't understand how the difference in bandwidth pricing can be so large. I'm also certain that Amazon doesn't pay as much for bandwidth as the guy from buyvm.
- true_religion 14y ago
  buyvm is overselling their bandwidth to you. Real uplink pricing is not 2 dollars per terabyte. If you actually tried to use say 13 terabytes from a single vm, it would work eithe because of rate limmiting on your uplink or they would cut you off.
  - krelian 14y ago
    I realize they bank on their users not fully utilizing the allocated bandwidth but you can take as a somewhat similar example whatbox (or any other seedbox provider), they sell bandwidth pretty cheap and their users are in general huge bandwidth hogs.
  - lsc 14y ago
    well, real uplinks are charged on the 95th percentile, mostly. (sometimes capped, and Cogent does 90th percentile) I'm signing a deal (if all goes well) tomorrow for $0.65 per MB/sec. 5 gigabit commit on a 10GB port, ($1.15/megabit overage charge, billed on the 90th percentile.) From Cogent, probably the cheapest provider that claims 'tier 1' status (there's a lot of argument about Cogent's "tier 1" status... which is kind of funny; If you only have one provider, a good tier 2 is going to be more reliable than a tier 1 anyhow.) but it is a real uplink and I really can use 5 gigabits of that. If you ran one megabit full out for a month, assuming 2,629,743 seconds in a month and assuming seagate gigabytes, divide by 8 and you get 328717 megabytes. so, uh, yeah, two dollars a terabyte? assuming they are larger than I am, and their BGP mix is the low-end stuff (Cogent and HE.net or the like) they aren't losing money.
    - X-Istence 14y ago
      Prices have gone down since the last time I had to deal with all of that. I remember the company I was working with paying $1.67 per Mb/sec, I've seen offers for 1 Gigabit/sec for $1000 so roughly $1.00 per Mb/sec (using 1000, not 1024), but I didn't know they would go down to $0.65 per Mb/sec! Guess the more you commit to, the better pricing you get!
      - lsc 14y ago
        Bandwidth pricing falls dramatically with bulk. Cogent offered me $0.75/meg for a 3g commit, $0.65 for a 5g commit, and $0.50 for a 10G commit. I know a guy that is getting $4.00/meg on a 100M commit on a 1000M pipe, also from Cogent. (and he chose that over going through me for $650/month for a capped full 1000M pipe) Bandwidth is also a "negotiated good" without a standard price, so what I pay may be rather different from what you pay. On top of that, bandwidth costs fall... dramatically[1] in competitive markets, and I'm in silicon valley, probably one of the most competitive transit markets. According to the graphs I've seen[1] I'm paying below average, but it won't be very long before what I'm paying is average. I was explaining this to the real-estate guy that owns my data center that was wanting to get in on the bandwidth business (he wanted to get people in for cheap and crank up the price on renewal, like you do with real-estate and data-center space) His response? "but then why would anyone want to be in the bandwidth business?" I mean, the fiber in the ground? that's like real-estate. the prices go up, the prices go down, eh, whatever. But, the amount of traffic you can push over two strands of fiber? that goes up all the time; I have some old cisco 15540 ESPx DWDM units that can do 16 10GB/sec waves over one pair of fiber. They were awesome back in the day. Modern DWDM equipment? you can get 80 100GB/sec waves on one pair of fiber. It's irritating, though, as like everything in this industry, you have to negotiate for months to get the "real price" - I asked Cogent for a single, capped 1 gigabit port for $1000/month north of 6 months ago. "Call me back when you can get me a buck a meg" They kept calling me back "how about $3 a meg? how about $1.75 a meg?" I mean, even now, they beat the buck a meg price point, but I had to buy a lot more than I needed (I'm splitting it half and half with another company, at cost, so while the transaction cost was huge, once you factor in the discounted setup fees, well, I am still paying more than a grand a month, but it's still a pretty comfortable fee for me.) I imagine Cogent has spent several thousand dollars of salesperson time, and I /know/ I have spend several thousand dollars of my time on this, and they are charging me rather less than if I had wasted almost none of their time. They even dropped the setup charge down to almost nothing. And now I've gotta do the same thing all over again with a second provider (most likely he.net) What a waste of time and effort all around. I mean, a little bit? it's kinda fun, I mean, sales people are always ridiculously overdressed extroverts, and in this industry, most of them can pick up on my personality and act in a way that is tolerable or even fun for short periods of time, but I really am an introvert. I mean, it can be fun for a while? but man, I have had like 5 meetings the last two days, between dealing with Cogent and dealing with the people that are buying half the pipe from me. It's exhausting, and I guess I have a hard time seeing how this is the most efficient way to sell bandwidth. I mean, I guess some people throw up their hands and pay the $3/meg asking price, and if they can break even on me, god damn, you wouldn't need many of the $3/meg customers to get really rich. But then that leads the question: why bother with me? I mean, I'm going to turn around and sell transit very near this cost in a very public way, which will mean that more of those $3/meg customers are going to turn around and ask Cogent for a discount. I guess they can rely on the fact that, well, I'm a scruffy introvert, and no large corporation will do business with me. Still, I mean, Cogent will let me drop 1G (capped, sadly) ports into datacenters where I don't have equipment for $650/month, and I've been running ads saying I would be willing to sell those at cost (and make my profit off of the difference between the list setup fee, $2500, and what they are actually charging me.) - This was mostly a way to get the higher commit pricing without actually paying for it all. [1]http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Internet-Transit-Pricing-Historical-And-Projected.php http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Internet-Transit-Pricing-H...
- xenophanes 14y ago
  One factor is: Amazon charges for actual bandwidth used. Most buyvm users only use a tiny fraction of what they are allowed to.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

negamax 14y ago

For me biggest reason to use AWS is ease of use and APIs. I have used dedicated servers before but with AWS I don't even think about servers. Application is somewhere sitting in the cloud and it will scale, if required or I will get alert if something is not right. Also, majority of people will not be needing more than a single EC2 instance which costs ~$20 a month, lesser for Linux. Amazon reviews and lowers prices periodically.