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It's the lie that counts. From Sam Harris' book "Lying" (I've read it 4-5 years ago so I won't try to quote it), the most important thing that I kept is "not te

It's the lie that counts. From Sam Harris' book "Lying" (I've read it 4-5 years ago so I won't try to quote it), the most important thing that I kept is "not telling the whole truth is also lying". This is what Apple did. And when the lie helps to boost sales then the presumption of innocence goes bye-bye. This is what did it for me with Apple. I'm in the EU so most like won't get a penny from them, but it's ok, they will never get a penny from me ever again (AFAIK)

whynotminot 3y ago
How does this boost sales. Wasn’t defending their PR handling—in fact that’s what I specially called out as the problem, so I don’t know why you’re replying to me.
- HenryBemis 3y ago
  Phone slows down, meanwhile you continue updating apps which are more demanding, and this 'forces' you to upgrade to the newer/faster phone. I rarely update apps, as I 'freeze' the updates once I get a good-enough version (i.e. Spotify keeps messing things up imho). So with a stable iOS and the same apps, the CPU/RAM should feel the same. If you slow down my CPU, then the experience becomes worse, thus buying the newer phone.
  - whynotminot 3y ago
    > Phone slows down, meanwhile you continue updating apps which are more demanding, and this 'forces' you to upgrade to the newer/faster phone. I already addressed this in my first post. What’s more likely to make you think you need to upgrade—your phone shutting off all the time randomly, or just moving a little slower? These were the technical choices given the degraded batteries in these phones. In my view, Apple made the choice that would be less noticeable to most people. With that said, if you’re firmly in “planned obsolescence mode” I understand there’s not much I can say here to persuade you otherwise.
    - Chris2048 3y ago
      > What’s more likely to make you think you need to upgrade—your phone shutting off all the time randomly, or just moving a little slower? The former. The random shutdowns would make you think the battery needs replacing, meaning you wouldn't need to replace the whole phone. The latter would make you think that modern apps aren't able to run on it anymore, or you are suffering from windows-style software bloat.
      - whynotminot 3y ago
        > The random shutdowns would make you think the battery needs replacing, meaning you wouldn't need to replace the whole phone. What would make you leap to that conclusion? That doesn’t follow at all, especially for the average non-technical user. The shutdowns weren’t situations where the battery was draining to zero faster than it should have. They appeared to the user as random occurrences even with battery left in the tank. This was due to the battery no longer being capable of providing the right power when SoC power draw would peak. That’s why throttling the chip to run slower mitigates the issue.
    - alpaca128 3y ago
      Apple's choice was not between slowdowns and random shutdowns, but between informing users or keeping them unaware that a battery swap could keep the phone fast. Also the slowdowns weren't "less noticeable" in some cases, I've seen iPhones that reached a point where processing a single touch input could take up to 5 seconds. Customers were generally not aware what the fix for the slowdown was. No non-technical person would ever think of swapping the battery because of slower performance, in my experience most people assume that the storage is full or the system is bloated. For a random user the only known guaranteed fix is buying a new phone. So Apple had an incentive to not inform users because of that and they clearly didn't mind.
      - whynotminot 3y ago
        Repeating myself in new ways isn’t my favorite thing, so here’s what I already said at the start of this conversation: > Where they failed was in not communicating this and trying to Apple Magic “it just works pay no attention to the man behind the curtain” when they should have been straightforward.
izacus 3y ago
I'm always fascinated how posts like yours are downvoted - it's kind of incredible how many people outright defend liars (and lying corporations!) and attack people calling out lies. It seems like in modern US, lying it so normal and accepted that anger is always directed at people calling it out.
- cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
  I am not an American citizen or resident, have never been, have no desire to be, and downvoted the comment. It’s very American to forget that the rest of the world has access to the Internet.
ateng 3y ago
There are multiple definitions of lying. Some people would use the stricter form of 'making a knowingly false statement', and those people are likely to confidently denied they lied when they were accused lying, when they think they only not telling the whole truth. John Mearsheimer's book "Why Leaders Lie" has a great definition on three forms of deception [1]: * Lying - Making a knowingly false statement to deceive * Spinning - Emphasis / de-emphasis certain parts of fact to tell a favorable story * Concealment - Hiding certain facts to deceive If I detect someone is "lying" (in your broader definition) I would now use the word 'dishonest' instead. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2013/05/20/deceiving-without-lying/?sh=6ee834b23b49 https://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2013/05/20/deceiving-withou...
ImHereToVote 3y ago
Sam Harris would know a thing or two about that.

whynotminot 3y ago

How does this boost sales. Wasn’t defending their PR handling—in fact that’s what I specially called out as the problem, so I don’t know why you’re replying to me.

HenryBemis 3y ago
Phone slows down, meanwhile you continue updating apps which are more demanding, and this 'forces' you to upgrade to the newer/faster phone. I rarely update apps, as I 'freeze' the updates once I get a good-enough version (i.e. Spotify keeps messing things up imho). So with a stable iOS and the same apps, the CPU/RAM should feel the same. If you slow down my CPU, then the experience becomes worse, thus buying the newer phone.
- whynotminot 3y ago
  > Phone slows down, meanwhile you continue updating apps which are more demanding, and this 'forces' you to upgrade to the newer/faster phone. I already addressed this in my first post. What’s more likely to make you think you need to upgrade—your phone shutting off all the time randomly, or just moving a little slower? These were the technical choices given the degraded batteries in these phones. In my view, Apple made the choice that would be less noticeable to most people. With that said, if you’re firmly in “planned obsolescence mode” I understand there’s not much I can say here to persuade you otherwise.
  - Chris2048 3y ago
    > What’s more likely to make you think you need to upgrade—your phone shutting off all the time randomly, or just moving a little slower? The former. The random shutdowns would make you think the battery needs replacing, meaning you wouldn't need to replace the whole phone. The latter would make you think that modern apps aren't able to run on it anymore, or you are suffering from windows-style software bloat.
    - whynotminot 3y ago
      > The random shutdowns would make you think the battery needs replacing, meaning you wouldn't need to replace the whole phone. What would make you leap to that conclusion? That doesn’t follow at all, especially for the average non-technical user. The shutdowns weren’t situations where the battery was draining to zero faster than it should have. They appeared to the user as random occurrences even with battery left in the tank. This was due to the battery no longer being capable of providing the right power when SoC power draw would peak. That’s why throttling the chip to run slower mitigates the issue.
  - alpaca128 3y ago
    Apple's choice was not between slowdowns and random shutdowns, but between informing users or keeping them unaware that a battery swap could keep the phone fast. Also the slowdowns weren't "less noticeable" in some cases, I've seen iPhones that reached a point where processing a single touch input could take up to 5 seconds. Customers were generally not aware what the fix for the slowdown was. No non-technical person would ever think of swapping the battery because of slower performance, in my experience most people assume that the storage is full or the system is bloated. For a random user the only known guaranteed fix is buying a new phone. So Apple had an incentive to not inform users because of that and they clearly didn't mind.
    - whynotminot 3y ago
      Repeating myself in new ways isn’t my favorite thing, so here’s what I already said at the start of this conversation: > Where they failed was in not communicating this and trying to Apple Magic “it just works pay no attention to the man behind the curtain” when they should have been straightforward.

izacus 3y ago

I'm always fascinated how posts like yours are downvoted - it's kind of incredible how many people outright defend liars (and lying corporations!) and attack people calling out lies. It seems like in modern US, lying it so normal and accepted that anger is always directed at people calling it out.

cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
I am not an American citizen or resident, have never been, have no desire to be, and downvoted the comment. It’s very American to forget that the rest of the world has access to the Internet.

ateng 3y ago

There are multiple definitions of lying. Some people would use the stricter form of 'making a knowingly false statement', and those people are likely to confidently denied they lied when they were accused lying, when they think they only not telling the whole truth. John Mearsheimer's book "Why Leaders Lie" has a great definition on three forms of deception [1]: * Lying - Making a knowingly false statement to deceive * Spinning - Emphasis / de-emphasis certain parts of fact to tell a favorable story * Concealment - Hiding certain facts to deceive If I detect someone is "lying" (in your broader definition) I would now use the word 'dishonest' instead. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2013/05/20/deceiving-without-lying/?sh=6ee834b23b49 https://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2013/05/20/deceiving-withou...

ImHereToVote 3y ago

Sam Harris would know a thing or two about that.