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Technically Apple absolutely did the right thing. Slowing down phones to prevent them from shutting off randomly is objectively the right move, especially since

Technically Apple absolutely did the right thing. Slowing down phones to prevent them from shutting off randomly is objectively the right move, especially since Apple’s SoCs are so performant they typically have enough headroom to offer reasonable performance even at lower clock speeds. Where they failed was in not communicating this and trying to Apple Magic “it just works pay no attention to the man behind the curtain” when they should have been straightforward. That’s basically this controversy in a nut shell. The tin foil hatting over planned obsolescence that always comes out has never made sense for a company that supports its smartphones with software updates longer than anyone else in the industry. Even this throttling was really about prolonging the usable life of your phone—you are more likely to think you need to buy a new phone if it’s randomly turning itself off all the time, rather than just feeling a little slower than it used to.

HenryBemis 3y ago
It's the lie that counts. From Sam Harris' book "Lying" (I've read it 4-5 years ago so I won't try to quote it), the most important thing that I kept is "not telling the whole truth is also lying". This is what Apple did. And when the lie helps to boost sales then the presumption of innocence goes bye-bye. This is what did it for me with Apple. I'm in the EU so most like won't get a penny from them, but it's ok, they will never get a penny from me ever again (AFAIK)
- whynotminot 3y ago
  How does this boost sales. Wasn’t defending their PR handling—in fact that’s what I specially called out as the problem, so I don’t know why you’re replying to me.
  - HenryBemis 3y ago
    Phone slows down, meanwhile you continue updating apps which are more demanding, and this 'forces' you to upgrade to the newer/faster phone. I rarely update apps, as I 'freeze' the updates once I get a good-enough version (i.e. Spotify keeps messing things up imho). So with a stable iOS and the same apps, the CPU/RAM should feel the same. If you slow down my CPU, then the experience becomes worse, thus buying the newer phone.
    - whynotminot 3y ago
      > Phone slows down, meanwhile you continue updating apps which are more demanding, and this 'forces' you to upgrade to the newer/faster phone. I already addressed this in my first post. What’s more likely to make you think you need to upgrade—your phone shutting off all the time randomly, or just moving a little slower? These were the technical choices given the degraded batteries in these phones. In my view, Apple made the choice that would be less noticeable to most people. With that said, if you’re firmly in “planned obsolescence mode” I understand there’s not much I can say here to persuade you otherwise.
      - Chris2048 3y ago
        > What’s more likely to make you think you need to upgrade—your phone shutting off all the time randomly, or just moving a little slower? The former. The random shutdowns would make you think the battery needs replacing, meaning you wouldn't need to replace the whole phone. The latter would make you think that modern apps aren't able to run on it anymore, or you are suffering from windows-style software bloat.
        whynotminot 3y ago
        > The random shutdowns would make you think the battery needs replacing, meaning you wouldn't need to replace the whole phone. What would make you leap to that conclusion? That doesn’t follow at all, especially for the average non-technical user. The shutdowns weren’t situations where the battery was draining to zero faster than it should have. They appeared to the user as random occurrences even with battery left in the tank. This was due to the battery no longer being capable of providing the right power when SoC power draw would peak. That’s why throttling the chip to run slower mitigates the issue.
      - alpaca128 3y ago
        Apple's choice was not between slowdowns and random shutdowns, but between informing users or keeping them unaware that a battery swap could keep the phone fast. Also the slowdowns weren't "less noticeable" in some cases, I've seen iPhones that reached a point where processing a single touch input could take up to 5 seconds. Customers were generally not aware what the fix for the slowdown was. No non-technical person would ever think of swapping the battery because of slower performance, in my experience most people assume that the storage is full or the system is bloated. For a random user the only known guaranteed fix is buying a new phone. So Apple had an incentive to not inform users because of that and they clearly didn't mind.
- izacus 3y ago
  I'm always fascinated how posts like yours are downvoted - it's kind of incredible how many people outright defend liars (and lying corporations!) and attack people calling out lies. It seems like in modern US, lying it so normal and accepted that anger is always directed at people calling it out.
  - cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
    I am not an American citizen or resident, have never been, have no desire to be, and downvoted the comment. It’s very American to forget that the rest of the world has access to the Internet.
- ateng 3y ago
  There are multiple definitions of lying. Some people would use the stricter form of 'making a knowingly false statement', and those people are likely to confidently denied they lied when they were accused lying, when they think they only not telling the whole truth. John Mearsheimer's book "Why Leaders Lie" has a great definition on three forms of deception [1]: * Lying - Making a knowingly false statement to deceive * Spinning - Emphasis / de-emphasis certain parts of fact to tell a favorable story * Concealment - Hiding certain facts to deceive If I detect someone is "lying" (in your broader definition) I would now use the word 'dishonest' instead. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2013/05/20/deceiving-without-lying/?sh=6ee834b23b49 https://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2013/05/20/deceiving-withou...
- ImHereToVote 3y ago
  Sam Harris would know a thing or two about that.
meragrin_ 3y ago
> Technically Apple absolutely did the right thing. > Where they failed was in not communicating this and trying to Apple Magic “it just works pay no attention to the man behind the curtain” when they should have been straightforward. So they technically did the wrong thing. > Even this throttling was really about prolonging the usable life of your phone. Not really. It was the cheapest way to protect their reputation without acknowledging anything was wrong. If it was really about prolonging the usable life of your phone, they would have notified the user the throttling was happening and how they can regain the performance.
- whynotminot 3y ago
  > So they technically did the wrong thing. Is this a website for software engineers or lawyers? > Not really. It was the cheapest way to protect their reputation without acknowledging anything was wrong. Worked out great for reputation management! But this isn’t a fact, it’s just your opinion. Mine is that they wanted your phone to keep working without much fuss. The fact that this is still how iPhones operate even now bolsters this point. They just now disclose that your battery has degraded to a point that impacts performance.
- tuetuopay 3y ago
  Well for the average Joe this did work absolutely wonders. My mom finally replaced her 6s days ago because it started turning off randomly. The slowdown was not an issue for SMS and WhatsApp and the occasional Google Maps. > they would have notified the user the throttling was happening and how they can regain the performance. And they would have a controversy on their butt about battery planned obsolescence.
asimovfan 3y ago
How is it the right thing? Batteries are cheap and could be replaced. Less e waste also. Its still psychopathic selfish profit driven behavior and people are defending it. Incredible.
- asystole 3y ago
  And you can absolutely get your iPhone battery replaced.
  - ImHereToVote 3y ago
    How would you know to do that. The company went out of their way to lie to their users specifically so they couldn't know to replace the battery.
  - Y-bar 3y ago
    Apple literally refused my request to pay for a battery replacement and claimed my battery and performance issues was due to a dent (flake of glass missing) in the screen.
    - ramraj07 3y ago
      Maybe you misunderstood them - for me they just flat out refused to replace the battery due to a minor dent - primarily because they alleged their machine can’t operate on the damage iPhone anymore. Which while a dick move is at least plausible.
      - Y-bar 3y ago
        Maybe. But the way I remember it is that it was clear from their side that replacing the battery would not resolve my performance issues even though I wanted to replace it to fix the random shutdowns and quickly worsening battery life. In any case, it looks like an even greater flaw in Apple's design process if they are unable to properly service a phone with a dent in the screen. It should not be unheard of, especially since they seem to keep on highlighting better and more resistant glass every year or so.
eertami 3y ago
Right. The same company that said "You're holding it wrong" when there was a design defect causing calls to drop out. The same company that shipped a broken keyboard and refused to repair units until losing the ensuing court battle. But sure, they just only have the users best interest at heart. It is confusing that you write it, when you understand full well that no rational person will believe it, I'm not even convinced you believe it.
- whynotminot 3y ago
  You’re right, Apple is evil, and they actually want you to have a terrible experience with their products. They actually don’t want to be a profitable company, they really just want you to suffer in subtle and insidious ways.
- thebruce87m 3y ago
  > The same company that said "You're holding it wrong" when there was a design defect causing calls to drop out. Reminder: this was never said.

HenryBemis 3y ago

It's the lie that counts. From Sam Harris' book "Lying" (I've read it 4-5 years ago so I won't try to quote it), the most important thing that I kept is "not telling the whole truth is also lying". This is what Apple did. And when the lie helps to boost sales then the presumption of innocence goes bye-bye. This is what did it for me with Apple. I'm in the EU so most like won't get a penny from them, but it's ok, they will never get a penny from me ever again (AFAIK)

whynotminot 3y ago
How does this boost sales. Wasn’t defending their PR handling—in fact that’s what I specially called out as the problem, so I don’t know why you’re replying to me.
- HenryBemis 3y ago
  Phone slows down, meanwhile you continue updating apps which are more demanding, and this 'forces' you to upgrade to the newer/faster phone. I rarely update apps, as I 'freeze' the updates once I get a good-enough version (i.e. Spotify keeps messing things up imho). So with a stable iOS and the same apps, the CPU/RAM should feel the same. If you slow down my CPU, then the experience becomes worse, thus buying the newer phone.
  - whynotminot 3y ago
    > Phone slows down, meanwhile you continue updating apps which are more demanding, and this 'forces' you to upgrade to the newer/faster phone. I already addressed this in my first post. What’s more likely to make you think you need to upgrade—your phone shutting off all the time randomly, or just moving a little slower? These were the technical choices given the degraded batteries in these phones. In my view, Apple made the choice that would be less noticeable to most people. With that said, if you’re firmly in “planned obsolescence mode” I understand there’s not much I can say here to persuade you otherwise.
    - Chris2048 3y ago
      > What’s more likely to make you think you need to upgrade—your phone shutting off all the time randomly, or just moving a little slower? The former. The random shutdowns would make you think the battery needs replacing, meaning you wouldn't need to replace the whole phone. The latter would make you think that modern apps aren't able to run on it anymore, or you are suffering from windows-style software bloat.
      - whynotminot 3y ago
        > The random shutdowns would make you think the battery needs replacing, meaning you wouldn't need to replace the whole phone. What would make you leap to that conclusion? That doesn’t follow at all, especially for the average non-technical user. The shutdowns weren’t situations where the battery was draining to zero faster than it should have. They appeared to the user as random occurrences even with battery left in the tank. This was due to the battery no longer being capable of providing the right power when SoC power draw would peak. That’s why throttling the chip to run slower mitigates the issue.
    - alpaca128 3y ago
      Apple's choice was not between slowdowns and random shutdowns, but between informing users or keeping them unaware that a battery swap could keep the phone fast. Also the slowdowns weren't "less noticeable" in some cases, I've seen iPhones that reached a point where processing a single touch input could take up to 5 seconds. Customers were generally not aware what the fix for the slowdown was. No non-technical person would ever think of swapping the battery because of slower performance, in my experience most people assume that the storage is full or the system is bloated. For a random user the only known guaranteed fix is buying a new phone. So Apple had an incentive to not inform users because of that and they clearly didn't mind.
izacus 3y ago
I'm always fascinated how posts like yours are downvoted - it's kind of incredible how many people outright defend liars (and lying corporations!) and attack people calling out lies. It seems like in modern US, lying it so normal and accepted that anger is always directed at people calling it out.
- cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
  I am not an American citizen or resident, have never been, have no desire to be, and downvoted the comment. It’s very American to forget that the rest of the world has access to the Internet.
ateng 3y ago
There are multiple definitions of lying. Some people would use the stricter form of 'making a knowingly false statement', and those people are likely to confidently denied they lied when they were accused lying, when they think they only not telling the whole truth. John Mearsheimer's book "Why Leaders Lie" has a great definition on three forms of deception [1]: * Lying - Making a knowingly false statement to deceive * Spinning - Emphasis / de-emphasis certain parts of fact to tell a favorable story * Concealment - Hiding certain facts to deceive If I detect someone is "lying" (in your broader definition) I would now use the word 'dishonest' instead. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2013/05/20/deceiving-without-lying/?sh=6ee834b23b49 https://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2013/05/20/deceiving-withou...
ImHereToVote 3y ago
Sam Harris would know a thing or two about that.

meragrin_ 3y ago

> Technically Apple absolutely did the right thing. > Where they failed was in not communicating this and trying to Apple Magic “it just works pay no attention to the man behind the curtain” when they should have been straightforward. So they technically did the wrong thing. > Even this throttling was really about prolonging the usable life of your phone. Not really. It was the cheapest way to protect their reputation without acknowledging anything was wrong. If it was really about prolonging the usable life of your phone, they would have notified the user the throttling was happening and how they can regain the performance.

whynotminot 3y ago
> So they technically did the wrong thing. Is this a website for software engineers or lawyers? > Not really. It was the cheapest way to protect their reputation without acknowledging anything was wrong. Worked out great for reputation management! But this isn’t a fact, it’s just your opinion. Mine is that they wanted your phone to keep working without much fuss. The fact that this is still how iPhones operate even now bolsters this point. They just now disclose that your battery has degraded to a point that impacts performance.
tuetuopay 3y ago
Well for the average Joe this did work absolutely wonders. My mom finally replaced her 6s days ago because it started turning off randomly. The slowdown was not an issue for SMS and WhatsApp and the occasional Google Maps. > they would have notified the user the throttling was happening and how they can regain the performance. And they would have a controversy on their butt about battery planned obsolescence.

asimovfan 3y ago

How is it the right thing? Batteries are cheap and could be replaced. Less e waste also. Its still psychopathic selfish profit driven behavior and people are defending it. Incredible.

asystole 3y ago
And you can absolutely get your iPhone battery replaced.
- ImHereToVote 3y ago
  How would you know to do that. The company went out of their way to lie to their users specifically so they couldn't know to replace the battery.
- Y-bar 3y ago
  Apple literally refused my request to pay for a battery replacement and claimed my battery and performance issues was due to a dent (flake of glass missing) in the screen.
  - ramraj07 3y ago
    Maybe you misunderstood them - for me they just flat out refused to replace the battery due to a minor dent - primarily because they alleged their machine can’t operate on the damage iPhone anymore. Which while a dick move is at least plausible.
    - Y-bar 3y ago
      Maybe. But the way I remember it is that it was clear from their side that replacing the battery would not resolve my performance issues even though I wanted to replace it to fix the random shutdowns and quickly worsening battery life. In any case, it looks like an even greater flaw in Apple's design process if they are unable to properly service a phone with a dent in the screen. It should not be unheard of, especially since they seem to keep on highlighting better and more resistant glass every year or so.

eertami 3y ago

Right. The same company that said "You're holding it wrong" when there was a design defect causing calls to drop out. The same company that shipped a broken keyboard and refused to repair units until losing the ensuing court battle. But sure, they just only have the users best interest at heart. It is confusing that you write it, when you understand full well that no rational person will believe it, I'm not even convinced you believe it.

whynotminot 3y ago
You’re right, Apple is evil, and they actually want you to have a terrible experience with their products. They actually don’t want to be a profitable company, they really just want you to suffer in subtle and insidious ways.
thebruce87m 3y ago
> The same company that said "You're holding it wrong" when there was a design defect causing calls to drop out. Reminder: this was never said.