4 ms·
I don't think TFA failed to differentiate revenue and profit, though. I think the point is these companies have enough revenue to pay off the fines, and 358 day
by anticorporate 3y ago
I don't think TFA failed to differentiate revenue and profit, though. I think the point is these companies have enough revenue to pay off the fines, and 358 days to return to profitability for the year, even starting out with an operating loss.
- hef19898 3y agoAnd now you are mixing free cash flow, with revenue, with profits...
- ethbr1 3y agoInstead of bikeshedding, you might suggest an alternative time-vs-income-based measurement that you think is better? It's obviously not profit, which it would be crazy to "require" to pay fines when looking at companies. So what would you suggest using as a meter stick?
- hef19898 3y agoRevenue. Hard to manipulate (and doing so is illegal in itself), easy to measure and the top line is where it hurts. And no, I don't think fines should be high enough to destroy businesses the same way a speeding or parking ticket shouldn't bankrupt people.
- ethbr1 3y ago> The moment people fail to differentiate between revenue and profit, one can safely ignore the rest of the article. I assumed from your earlier comment you had a problem with the article using revenue.
- hef19898 3y agoBase the fine on revenue, measure the time needed to pay the fine in profits or cash flow. That would show some basic financial and accounting literacy, the bare minimum I ask for if you want me ro take an article about financials seriously.
- ethbr1 3y agoRevenue + payment deadline based on cash flow makes sense to me too. If we're really serious about materially-impactful fines, they need to impact more than one quarter. And conversely, companies need to be free to amortize payment in ways that hurt but don't cripple them. F.ex. if Alphabet and Meta's entire 2024 would be down because of fines, the market would presumably apply more pressure on their leadership.
- luqtas 3y agoviolating users privacy and acting as a hostile monopoly is ballparks different than receiving a ticket
- hef19898 3y agoThe basic idea is the same so.
- luqtas 3y agojust with the slightly difference of violating the park space of a single vehicle vs. violating the personal data of millions if not billions of users... quasi equal!
- hef19898 3y agoLast time I got a speeding ticket, it was considerably less than 2% of my gross salary. The basic idea so is the same, the amount of the fine is up for discussion so. Case in point: income based speeding tickets in Scandinavia vs. fixed amounts elsewhere (I favor the former, as things stand I don't care about the, for me, negligible amounts for 10 km/h speeding every once in a while, which is rather unfair, as I know a lot of people who cannot ignore the existing speeding fines in Germany). Edit: Regarding corporate fines, authorities should be a lot more aggressive claiming those. E.g. payable immediately after first trial, put in escrow until appeal. And change accointing laws so the fine in escrow cannot be shown in cash balances and has to be taken into account for profit and loss.
- luqtas 3y agoalso adding severe consequences for repeated offenses... like a driver would lose their permission to drive if they keep doing the same error! now, what that would be, i have no idea; as i don't think any country wants to ban stuff like Google or Meta services from their population
- kortilla 3y agoRevenue for a company makes no sense as a basis. It should be revenue tied to the crime.
- hef19898 3y agoQuantifying the revenue increase of said illegal behavior is close to impossible. Also, you want to discourage this behavior, so take the easier to quanitify and higher number.
- djbusby 3y agoWas the larger point (these companies are too damn big/powerful) so unimportant that it could be dismissed by lay-person usage of terms intended to highlight points of fact for gen-pop?
- anticorporate 3y agoNo one expects them to actually pay the fines with the exact pile of cash they've made in revenue this year (which, of course, isn't actually a pile of cash). You're missing the point, that the fines are nowhere large enough to be consequential. If the fines were anywhere close to large enough, the company would no longer able to operate their criminal business model profitably, and I would shed zero tears, even if it meant complete failure of the business. Any fine that merely reduces profit is effectively just a tax.
- kortilla 3y ago7 days of pure loss on a company with 2% margin is enough to wipe out profitability for a year. People who use revenue are unqualified to spout any opinions on this stuff because it shows they lack a super basic understanding of how businesses function.