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> OR the work is a short story in which case it will not ever earn anywhere near 65K unless movie rights to the short story are sold. Right, so where's the soc

> OR the work is a short story in which case it will not ever earn anywhere near 65K unless movie rights to the short story are sold. Right, so where's the social value in it? The work has proven to be of little value. What's in it for the people who extend copyright to keep giving it to you even though they don't really care for what you have to offer? Moreover, while your entire story has proved a complete and utter failure, what if just one page of your story has tremendous value for the next author who knows how to add a more compelling page 2? Why do we want to hold back that human progress so you can sit on something that doesn't even make you any money?

bryanrasmussen 3y ago
please see other responses - the U.S model of copyright is not the only one in the world and many other places do not believe the purpose of copyright is to foster human progress. >Moreover, while your entire story has proved a complete and utter failure I'm thinking you probably don't know anything about the pricing of short stories? At any rate in the example given I supposed that a short story can earn higher rates than normal rates for short story publication which might, if you are lucky, be somewhere around a few thousand dollars at publication in magazine form, some more thousands at winning an award, and then in a collection of short stories where it might reliably earn 10000 dollars a year (for its share of the whole collection length of something), note - that would be an extremely successful short story as far as short stories go (without selling media rights) Obviously this varies depending on where you sell your stuff, and if you earn money for awards. Let's say you sell to the New Yorker http://quick-brown-fox-canada.blogspot.com/2015/02/the-new-yorker-1-world-trade-center-new.html http://quick-brown-fox-canada.blogspot.com/2015/02/the-new-y... so you earn about 7,500 for the short story. The award that has paid out the most for a short story ever evidently paid 30 thousand pounds https://lithub.com/read-the-story-that-just-won-the-biggest-short-story-prize-in-the-world/ https://lithub.com/read-the-story-that-just-won-the-biggest-... You may not know this but very few stories win awards, awards being structured to be relatively rare. Obviously if someone has not one an award for their short story you may consider that their work has been a complete and utter failure, but even so... let us consider if someone sold to the New Yorker, which hopefully you will agree is likely to be one of the better paying markets and evidently by your calculation one of the short story markets that publishes things that are not complete and utter failures (because it pays more than others right?), and if they then won the highest paying award ever they would have another 30,000, now assuming this short story is part of a collection of short stories and the author is really popular I think we can say this short story in the collection makes about 10,000 per year. in 16 years that is - for one of the most successful short stories in the world - 197,500 dollars. on edit: I really find it amusing that HN of all places really wants to limit how people can make money on what is an entrepreneurial activity - sitting down and writing a story and then trying to sell it.
- randomdata 3y ago
  > the U.S model of copyright is not the only one in the world and many other places do not believe the purpose of copyright is to foster human progress. In democratic places, copyright is extended for the benefit of the population at large. That does not necessarily mean fostering human progress, but it does mean something that benefits the population as a whole. Copyright can be taken away if the people at large don't see some kind benefit. > I'm thinking you probably don't know anything about the pricing of short stories? If exchanged for $1 per copy, you have a theoretical ~$8 billion dollar market. $65k is chump change in comparison. Hell, make it 1¢ – that's still $80 million. If you have not captured anywhere close to those numbers, you have either failed to do your work justice in distribution or it is actually worthless. Either way, in that state what is the benefit to you holding it back? > Let's say you sell to the New Yorker http://quick-brown-fox-canada.blogspot.com/2015/02/the-new-y http://quick-brown-fox-canada.blogspot.com/2015/02/the-new-y... so you earn about 7,500 for the short story. But in that case you can sell the copyright, so they would inherit the copyright cost. Whether or not they see $65k worth of copyright value is up to them. It would no longer be your burden if you return to your minimum wage job after the sale. > I really find it amusing that HN of all places really wants to limit how people can make money on what is an entrepreneurial activity I find it amusing that someone, on HN of all places, falls down to basic logic. An idea posted on an internet forum does not imply one's wants or desires. Moreover, for practical purposes, why would you even talk about what you actually want? The thing you have chosen as your want is where you will have already put in the most thought effort. What more are you going to learn once you have settled on something? The things you don't want are going to provide a much more interesting discussion and opportunities to learn.
  - bryanrasmussen 3y ago
    >> I'm thinking you probably don't know anything about the pricing of short stories? >If exchanged for $1 per copy, you have a theoretical ~$8 billion dollar market. $65k is chump change in comparison. Hell, make it 1¢ – that's still $80 million. If you have not captured anywhere close to those numbers, you have either failed to do your work justice in distribution or it is actually worthless. OK, well thanks for the confirmation. >I find it amusing that someone, on HN of all places, falls down to basic logic. Hey! Me too! We do have something in common after all!!

bryanrasmussen 3y ago

please see other responses - the U.S model of copyright is not the only one in the world and many other places do not believe the purpose of copyright is to foster human progress. >Moreover, while your entire story has proved a complete and utter failure I'm thinking you probably don't know anything about the pricing of short stories? At any rate in the example given I supposed that a short story can earn higher rates than normal rates for short story publication which might, if you are lucky, be somewhere around a few thousand dollars at publication in magazine form, some more thousands at winning an award, and then in a collection of short stories where it might reliably earn 10000 dollars a year (for its share of the whole collection length of something), note - that would be an extremely successful short story as far as short stories go (without selling media rights) Obviously this varies depending on where you sell your stuff, and if you earn money for awards. Let's say you sell to the New Yorker http://quick-brown-fox-canada.blogspot.com/2015/02/the-new-yorker-1-world-trade-center-new.html http://quick-brown-fox-canada.blogspot.com/2015/02/the-new-y... so you earn about 7,500 for the short story. The award that has paid out the most for a short story ever evidently paid 30 thousand pounds https://lithub.com/read-the-story-that-just-won-the-biggest-short-story-prize-in-the-world/ https://lithub.com/read-the-story-that-just-won-the-biggest-... You may not know this but very few stories win awards, awards being structured to be relatively rare. Obviously if someone has not one an award for their short story you may consider that their work has been a complete and utter failure, but even so... let us consider if someone sold to the New Yorker, which hopefully you will agree is likely to be one of the better paying markets and evidently by your calculation one of the short story markets that publishes things that are not complete and utter failures (because it pays more than others right?), and if they then won the highest paying award ever they would have another 30,000, now assuming this short story is part of a collection of short stories and the author is really popular I think we can say this short story in the collection makes about 10,000 per year. in 16 years that is - for one of the most successful short stories in the world - 197,500 dollars. on edit: I really find it amusing that HN of all places really wants to limit how people can make money on what is an entrepreneurial activity - sitting down and writing a story and then trying to sell it.

randomdata 3y ago
> the U.S model of copyright is not the only one in the world and many other places do not believe the purpose of copyright is to foster human progress. In democratic places, copyright is extended for the benefit of the population at large. That does not necessarily mean fostering human progress, but it does mean something that benefits the population as a whole. Copyright can be taken away if the people at large don't see some kind benefit. > I'm thinking you probably don't know anything about the pricing of short stories? If exchanged for $1 per copy, you have a theoretical ~$8 billion dollar market. $65k is chump change in comparison. Hell, make it 1¢ – that's still $80 million. If you have not captured anywhere close to those numbers, you have either failed to do your work justice in distribution or it is actually worthless. Either way, in that state what is the benefit to you holding it back? > Let's say you sell to the New Yorker http://quick-brown-fox-canada.blogspot.com/2015/02/the-new-y http://quick-brown-fox-canada.blogspot.com/2015/02/the-new-y... so you earn about 7,500 for the short story. But in that case you can sell the copyright, so they would inherit the copyright cost. Whether or not they see $65k worth of copyright value is up to them. It would no longer be your burden if you return to your minimum wage job after the sale. > I really find it amusing that HN of all places really wants to limit how people can make money on what is an entrepreneurial activity I find it amusing that someone, on HN of all places, falls down to basic logic. An idea posted on an internet forum does not imply one's wants or desires. Moreover, for practical purposes, why would you even talk about what you actually want? The thing you have chosen as your want is where you will have already put in the most thought effort. What more are you going to learn once you have settled on something? The things you don't want are going to provide a much more interesting discussion and opportunities to learn.
- bryanrasmussen 3y ago
  >> I'm thinking you probably don't know anything about the pricing of short stories? >If exchanged for $1 per copy, you have a theoretical ~$8 billion dollar market. $65k is chump change in comparison. Hell, make it 1¢ – that's still $80 million. If you have not captured anywhere close to those numbers, you have either failed to do your work justice in distribution or it is actually worthless. OK, well thanks for the confirmation. >I find it amusing that someone, on HN of all places, falls down to basic logic. Hey! Me too! We do have something in common after all!!